Author Topic: Aborted babies go to Heaven (Read 7161 times)

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 17, 2011, 09:13:41 AM »

I have several thoughts on the matter.

Even though Limbo is not defined dogma, I am convinced through the writings of saints and Popes that it is theologically sound. In other words, I don't see any reason not to accept Limbo.

As for the babies who die as victims of abortion, I don't think anyone can presume that they go to Heaven at all. Many of these babies are the children of non-believers who are very unlikely to ever come to know God themselves. How could we suppose they would educate their children in such a way? These children would never have been baptized and they all would end up in Hell anyway.

As for the babies of Christians who go the the murder mills to have their babies murdered, I am very confused and saddened. As Christians, especially Catholics, how could they murder their own children and expect God to have mercy or forgiveness? If their babies do go to Heaven, then it would be easy for them to convince themselves that they are showing mercy on their children by murdering them so they will go to Heaven. It would be crazy and it precisely the defense of that crazy Yates woman who drowned her 6 children in the bathtub. Nope. Doesn't make sense at all.

The miscarriage thing, I am not certain about. If the parents are Catholic, then they anticipate the child's baptism when it is born. Wouldn't that count, somehow, as baptism of desire? I would think that, then, those babies by the virtue of their parents, would, by the mercy of God, go to Heaven. (This is just my thinking)

For those who do not offer their children for baptism, I would think the pour souls would indeed go to Limbo.

I do believe that, in many cases, Limbo is God's Mercy. If these children never receive baptism, they will merit Hell for their actual sins---a much worse fate that the eternal bliss of Limbo.

In my opinion, the Church taking the stand that Limbo does not exist is part of the long list of compromises Rome wishes to take to make the Church more "friendly." Once you say that babies go to Heaven without the necessity of baptism, then how can you deny that everyone goes to Heaven? You can't.

Abortion is evil. Truly. And one reason it is so evil is that the people involved are sending these little babies to Hell in a hand basket.

I think it is sentimentality that brings people to believe that these poor babies will go to Heaven.

Perhaps if we told so-called Christian parents that their babies will go to Hell if they murder them before they are born, then more of them will actually get to take a breath of life.

Gregory I · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2012, 08:11:50 PM »

There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that any unbaptized child who dies will ever enter into the kingdom of heaven. At all. Ever.

It was the heresy of the Pelagians who first proposed that unbaptized infants who die could have blessedness, but not eternal life.

For over 800 years after Augustine, the Church endorsed and taught, in its ordinary and universal magisterium that Infants who die go to hell where they are tormented not only through the lack of the vision of God, but by the pain of sense. But their torment is the lightest.

Now, before everyone here loses it on me, please consider something:

The scholastics got a lot of things right. However, their methodology presupposes the acceptance of certain philosophical tenets that are not necessarily compatible with divine revelation. We are to accept revelation FIRST, and, ideally, philosophy is supposed to help explicate it.

Now, in regards to this issue there is a fatal flaw I believe people make regarding what is experienced after death. THat is, they often fail to take into account the general judgement as well.

Remember, our souls will be reunited to our bodies, and we will be judged before all. In this final judgement, there are only two alternatives, Heaven, and Hell.

Divine Revelation tells us in the book of Revelation what will happen:

Revelation 20:11-15

11And I saw a great white throne, and one sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled away, and there was no place found for them.

12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works.

14And hell and death were cast into the pool of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the pool of fire.

So here it is clear that the great and small are subject to the SAME judgement, and the same KIND of torment.

Now, if a person is not baptized, his name is not in the book of life. Therefore, an unbaptized infant, who is a sinner from conception, is NOT in the book of life.

Now, if in the END they share in the eternal suffering of fire with the rest of the damned, why should we believe they suffer less IMMEDIATELY after death in the particular judgement?

It would not be just for God to mitigate their punishment with natural happiness only to surprise them with fire later. They could not do anything to merit FURTHER punishment, so why would it increase in the end?

But since we KNOW the fate of the unbaptized, we must conclude, in the name of justice that those who merit one kind of punishment in the end (the lake of fire) can merit no less in the particular judgement.

Therefore, immediately after their death, unbaptized infants must descend to the fire of hell.

shin · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2012, 06:20:51 PM »

'[citing Augustine] In the authority quoted punishment denotes, not pain of sense, but only pain of loss, which is the privation of the divine vision, even as in Scripture the word "fire" is often wont to signify any kind of punishment.'

St. Thomas Aquinas

'Although unbaptized children are separated from God as regards the union of glory, they are not utterly separated from Him: in fact they are united to Him by their share of natural goods, and so will also be able to rejoice in Him by their natural knowledge and love.'

St. Thomas Aquinas

R.P. Pegues, O.P., in his "Catechism of the Summa" puts it thus:

Are there any human beings who at the moment of death are not judged?

Yes. All children who die before attaining the age of reason, or those who though adults never had the use of reason (LXIX. 6).

Is there any allotment at all as regards infants and those who have not had the use of reason ?

Yes, but this is not by reason of their merits or demerits; and it is not made by way of judgment. It comes about by the fact that some have received baptism and others have not. Those that have received baptism immediately go to heaven; whereas those who have not received this sacrament go to a place reserved for them which is called Limbo.

. . .

As regards children that die without baptism what will the state of their bodies be ?
They will rise in the most perfect state of a human being in nature, but without the properties of the glorified body; but they will never suffer any sorrow or pain (cf. Appendix, I. 2).

Gregory I · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2012, 08:02:44 PM »

THis all contradicts the plain sense of revelation.

Are unbaptized infants in the book of life? No.

Ergo...

This is a perfect example of putting philosophy before revelation.

Gregory I · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2012, 12:56:55 AM »

This is from the XVI Council of Carthage, a regional council presided over by St. Augustine, Ratified by Pope St. Hormisadas, the Coucnil of Ephesus and the COuncil of Nicea II. It therefore enjoys the prerogative of infallibility by virtue of being a part of the churches Ordinary and Universal magisterium, which teaches the following as a truth revealed by God:

3a. "It has been decided likewise that if anyone says that for this reason the Lord said: “In my house there are many mansions” [John 14:2]: that it might be understood that in the kingdom of heaven there will be some middle place or some place anywhere where the blessed infants live who departed from this life without baptism, without which they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, which is life eternal, let him be anathema. For when the Lord says: “Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the kingdom of God” [John 3:5], what Catholic will doubt that he will be a partner of the devil who has not deserved to be a coheir of Christ? For he who lacks the right part will without doubt run into the left" [cf. Matt. 25:41,46].

The teaching of the Church, albeit unpopular.

Maizar · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2012, 07:06:51 AM »

I wonder how much this question has come about because of mothers who keep asking their bishops and popes (over the centuries) and not because it really makes a difference to our daily activities. It's important not to say something which we cannot be sure of because it may lead mothers and families to not praying for the deceased.

It is certain that the soul of a fetus or embryo is eternal, and it is also certain that places like Purgatory are not going to exist forever, but that there will only be Heaven and Hell (whatever that place becomes after the final Judgement).

So I think wherever the unbaptized but clearly not eternally damned souls go, they are outside of time, they cannot be treated in any way except in accordance with divine and perfect justice.

The question I would want answered is "is it a waste to pray for an aborted foetus?" ... I would say of course not. And that answer proves to me that they eventually go to heaven, since why would we be told to pray for an impossibility?

songbird · « **Reply #21 on:** May 10, 2012, 05:58:37 PM »

We have to believe the truths that we know. We know that God is all knowing, loving and so on. No matter the judgement, it will be perfect. There was a priest who Maximillan Kloble, who thought, what will happen when there is no limbo, at final judgement. He was of the opinion, that if God asked the angels if they would serve him, would he do the same with those in limbo? We don't always have questions answered. The truths that we do have can help us to come to peace, knowing that God is perfect. Prayers are never wasted. God knows our hearts and when we pray we pray for all those in need. Those in purgatory pray for us and all those in need, and that is an article of Faith and a most consoling one.

Jitpring · « **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2012, 06:36:43 PM »

Listen:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20070422-Contra-Sedevacantism-and-the-Recent-Docuмent-on-Limbo.html

songbird · « **Reply #23 on:** May 12, 2012, 05:01:55 PM »

If aborted babies go to heaven, then how many women will abort with a clear conscience and say, oh, well the baby will go to heaven. No, we can not say it or think it. All we can say, is the truth, that God is perfect and that whatever his decision is, it will be right. A baby aborted is a creature with original sin, and a creature with original sin can not go to heaven. God will decide.