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Author Topic: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse  (Read 4195 times)

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Offline Matto

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Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2021, 09:05:13 PM »
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  • My point is that the Church itself does not say the earth is 7,220 years old.  
    Which is wrong, because for at least four centuries they (I forget exactly when it started) the Church used to chant the age of the earth every year at Christmas. So you can say the Church was wrong in her teaching, but not that she never taught it. Getting rid of this was one of the many changes they made because it embarrassed the evolutionists.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #46 on: June 29, 2021, 09:08:14 PM »
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  • What is wrong? 


    Offline Matto

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #47 on: June 29, 2021, 09:22:18 PM »
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  • I found this online. 

    Traditional Proclamation of the Birth of Christ

    The twenty-fifth day of December.
    In the five thousand one hundred and ninety-ninth year of the creation of the world
    from the time when God in the beginning created the heavens and the earth;
    the two thousand nine hundred and fifty-seventh year after the flood;
    the two thousand and fifteenth year from the birth of Abraham;
    the one thousand five hundred and tenth year from Moses
    and the going forth of the people of Israel from Egypt;
    the one thousand and thirty-second year from David's being anointed king;
    in the sixty-fifth week according to the prophecy of Daniel;
    in the one hundred and ninety-fourth Olympiad;
    the seven hundred and fifty-second year from the foundation of the city of Rome;
    the forty second year of the reign of Octavian Augustus;
    the whole world being at peace,
    in the sixth age of the world,
    Jesus Christ the eternal God and Son of the eternal Father,
    desiring to sanctify the world by his most merciful coming,
    being conceived by the Holy Spirit,
    and nine months having passed since his conception,
    was born in Bethlehem of Judea of the Virgin Mary,
    being made flesh.
    The Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #48 on: June 29, 2021, 09:26:09 PM »
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  • And? Does the Church infallibly teach the earth was created 7,220 years ago? If so, I need a citation.

    Offline Matto

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #49 on: June 29, 2021, 09:31:55 PM »
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  • And? Does the Church infallibly teach the earth was created 7,220 years ago? If so, I need a citation.
    I don't know if it rises to the level of infallibility. But it was the universal belief for at least eighteen hundred years. And it was taught in her liturgy for centuries at   Christmas Midnight Mass.
    You said:My point is that the Church itself does not say the earth is 7,220 years old.

    So I showed where the Church said exactly that for centuries in her liturgy .
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #50 on: June 29, 2021, 09:35:51 PM »
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  • That does not make it magisterial teaching.  

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #51 on: June 29, 2021, 11:46:08 PM »
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  • The Church has never infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or several billion years ago.  The Church has infallibly determined that the Universe is of finite age (i.e., that it has not existed from all eternity).  And that Universe was created out of nothing.

     As for Dinasours or other creatures, the Church does not have an official position on where different life forms developed over time. It says if they did, it was done under the **guidance of God***.

    I have read articles from the Kolbe center and consider them a  good source. And unlike Bergolio and the Vatican II sect,  I take Genesis literally.
    Jr, you need a re-education in the traditional Catholic faith if you believe that the church does not teach that the earth is younger than 8,000 years.

    I suggest to you to get hold of Special Creation Rediscovered by Gerard J Keane - very cheap in 3 forms CD, book and PDF. It should open your eyes to Truth, and you can be free of the fairytales that you have been taught

    https://www.kolbecenter.org/?s=Keane&post_type=product


    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #52 on: June 30, 2021, 12:10:39 AM »
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  • Jr, you need a re-education in the traditional Catholic faith if you believe that the church does not teach that the earth is younger than 8,000 years.

    I suggest to you to get hold of Special Creation Rediscovered by Gerard J Keane - very cheap in 3 forms CD, book and PDF. It should open your eyes to Truth, and you can be free of the fairytales that you have been taught

    https://www.kolbecenter.org/?s=Keane&post_type=product

    So you are saying then that the Church **infallibility** has taught that the earth is younger than 8,000 years? If so, please cite the church docuмent that says so, not what the Kolbe Center has to say.


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #53 on: June 30, 2021, 02:07:50 AM »
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  • So you are saying then that the Church **infallibility** has taught that the earth is younger than 8,000 years? If so, please cite the church docuмent that says so, not what the Kolbe Center has to say.
    I am not saying that the Church **infallibility** has taught that the earth is younger than 8,000 years.

    I am saying that you need to learn what the Church has to say about Creation through the docuмents which She has promulgated, and a good place to find those is to read the books which I suggested, especially Special Creation Rediscovered.

    If you study the issue deeply enough, even from a secular, scientific viewpoint, you will completely reject the notion of an earth millions of years old, as the Church and Holy Scripture does.

    Gerry Keane was writing about the creation/evolution debate before Kolbe Centre came to be, I believe, though they were essentially in agreement.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #54 on: June 30, 2021, 03:24:19 AM »
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  • It is just chaff. If someone has docuмentation to protect himself he hides it, he has it in various locations, he does not reveal where it is to every idiot on the internet. Besides, McAfee must be very rich, no rich man lives in that building. That is why it was not kept up by the owners of the individual units, it is they that pay for the maintenance and repairs. The building was full of retirees with limited incomes. Owners like that are notorious for holding back on repairs. Just compare the condition of the roof of the building before it collapsed and all the buildings around. The buildings roof is green black, while the others are all clean and white. The roof was way past it's lifespan. (P.S.- the building would not collapse from a bad roof, the roof is concrete and rebar)
    In my limited scanning of updates, they said yesterday that the repairs entailed a cost of between $80,000 and $300,000 per unit. Like a said above, the owners are retirees with limited incomes. Without looking at the property sales information, I would guess that the owners originally paid $80,000 to $300,000 for the units. I could see this as a reasonable explanation why they hesitated so long to undertake the repairs, since no building had ever collapsed like that in Florida. 

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #55 on: June 30, 2021, 03:41:03 AM »
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  • When you have a building that needs repairs, why wouldn't you start on the lower stories and work your way up, especially if there is structural damage on those lower stories?  I'm not an architect, but don't the lower stories bear the load of the higher ones?
    That "reporting" is done by news people that know nothing about construction and need to quickly get something out there as "news". You are right, the roof has nothing to do with the building collapsing, neither does the sinking of the pool have anything to do with the collapsing of the building. Those buildings are built on concrete and rebar pilings that are driven down into the ground in the quantities required to take the weight of the building. It is not built on a concrete slab, or concrete footers like a single family home might be built. The problem with concrete and rebar near the ocean is salt water corrosion, it can get through cracks in the concrete and destroy the steel rebar. Concrete without rebar is like chalk.  The solution today is fiberglass rebar, but scarcely anyone uses it because steel is cheaper, and who knows what will happen with fiberglass rebar in the future, time will tell. Steel rebar has been used this way for well over 100 years. 


    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #56 on: June 30, 2021, 12:40:00 PM »
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  • Just as I expected: sinkholes played a significant part in the collapse. 

    https://www.engineering.com/story/the-champlain-tower-collapse-in-florida-what-do-we-know

    Offline Marion

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #57 on: June 30, 2021, 01:30:45 PM »
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  • Just as I expected: sinkholes played a significant part in the collapse.

    https://www.engineering.com/story/the-champlain-tower-collapse-in-florida-what-do-we-know


    That's a plausible explanation, the close up image showing the cars below, and the "Navy demolition exercise".
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #58 on: June 30, 2021, 01:39:15 PM »
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  • My point is that the Church itself does not say the earth is 7,220 years old. I am sorry if you took offense. Anyway, this thread is about a building collapse, not a debate about creationism vs. evolution.
    You're clearly new here.   :laugh1:

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: 10 Catholic Families Remain missing in Surfside Condo collapse
    « Reply #59 on: June 30, 2021, 02:43:10 PM »
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  • Just as I expected: sinkholes played a significant part in the collapse.

    https://www.engineering.com/story/the-champlain-tower-collapse-in-florida-what-do-we-know
    I read the entire article, it is from 6 days ago, it has all the speculations possible (see some below) , not just sinkholes. Sinkholes are unheard of in Miami Beach. Sinkholes are very common in Central Florida, and they swallow up houses and cars in an instant. If it was a sinkhole, it will be easy to see and find. The part about the gradual sinking of the ground (1+ mm per year. would take like 20 years to sink 1 inch if the rate continues)  would not affect the building because the building is built on pilings, like a house on stilts, the surface ground could sink 3 feet and then just more stilt is exposed.
    The article also says: 
    Quote
    The collapse is compared to a planned demolition, one engineer saying “You could not get it to pancake like that if you tried to demolish it.”
    As the collapsed section faces the ocean, structural damage from long term corrosion should be looked at as a possible cause.
    The area had suffered a magnitude 3.9 tremor off the coast earlier in the week (June 21), the result of Navy demolition exercise.