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Author Topic: Will be interested to hear thoughts on this new BOD/BOB book  (Read 16849 times)

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Offline trad123

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Re: Will be interested to hear thoughts on this new BOD/BOB book
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2018, 10:22:03 PM »
https://archive.org/details/ContraCrawfordBoD/page/n1

page 109:


Quote
Crawford quoted St. Augustine as saying…

Of what use would repentance be, if Baptism did not follow?

The quote is actually from…

No one knows.


http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/15071.htm

On Marriage and Concupiscence (Book I)

Chapter 38 [XXXIII.]— To Baptism Must Be Referred All Remission of Sins, and the Complete Healing of the Resurrection. Daily Cleansing.

(. . .)


Blessed, therefore, is the olive tree "whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;" blessed is it "to which the Lord has not imputed sin." But this, which has received the remission, the covering, and the acquittal, even up to the complete change into an eternal immortality, still retains a secret force which furnishes seed for a wild and bitter olive tree, unless the same tillage of God prunes it also, by remission, covering, and acquittal. There will, however, be left no corruption at all in even carnal seed, when the same regeneration, which is now effected through the sacred laver, purges and heals all man's evil to the very end. By its means the very same flesh, through which the carnal mind was formed, shall become spiritual, — no longer having that carnal lust which resists the law of the mind, no longer emitting carnal seed.

For in this sense must be understood that which the apostle whom we have so often quoted says elsewhere:

"Christ loved the Church, and gave Himself for it; that He might sanctify and cleanse it by the washing of water by the word; that He might present it to Himself a glorious Church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing." Ephesians 5:25

It must, I say, be understood as implying, that by this laver of regeneration and word of sanctification all the evils of regenerate men of whatever kind are cleansed and healed — not the sins only which are all now remitted in baptism, but those also which after baptism are committed by human ignorance and frailty; not, indeed, that baptism is to be repeated as often as sin is repeated, but that by its one only ministration it comes to pass that pardon is secured to the faithful of all their sins both before and after their regeneration.

For of what use would repentance be, either before baptism, if baptism did not follow; or after it, if it did not precede?

Nay, in the Lord's Prayer itself, which is our daily cleansing, of what avail or advantage would it be for that petition to be uttered, "Forgive us our debts," Matthew 6:12 unless it be by such as have been baptized? And in like manner, how great soever be the liberality and kindness of a man's alms, what, I ask, would they profit him towards the remission of his sins if he had not been baptized? In short, on whom but on the baptized shall be bestowed the very felicities of the kingdom of heaven; where the Church shall have no spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; where there shall be nothing blameworthy, nothing unreal; where there shall be not only no guilt for sin, but no concupiscence to excite it?



Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Will be interested to hear thoughts on this new BOD/BOB book
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2018, 08:46:29 AM »
We hope you find it a useful and enjoyable read!

So, which one are you, Fellows or Conlon?  I see that you created an account just to plug your book.  I'm sure that your immediate family members will find it enjoyable.  It's a shame that you would spend so much time and effort writing AGAINST Catholic dogma.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Will be interested to hear thoughts on this new BOD/BOB book
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2018, 08:54:42 AM »
Well that's just untrue:

"Q[uestion]. Could [baptism of desire] possibly suffice for you to pass into a state of justification? A[nswer]. It could. Q[uestion]. If you got into the state of justification with the aid of "Baptism of Desire," and then failed to receive Baptism of Water, could you be saved? A[nswer]. Never" (Fr. Leonard Feeney, Bread of Life, 1974, p. 50, emphasis added).  

This ignorance of Father Feeney's positon discredits the book right out of the gate.  Nice attempt to take this quote out of context.  I'm sure that we can expect a lot of that in your book.

Father was then asked whether those who persevered in a state of justification until death would be damned if they did not receive the Sacrament, and he responded in the negative.

For, you see, this is begging the question on your part.  Father denies the possibility (following St. Augustine) that God would allow anyone to persevere in a state of justification without providing the Sacrament to that soul before death.  This is the clear teaching of St. Augustine.  So the hypothetical which you posit as an argument against the anti-BoD position is not granted by our side, and you are begging the question with it.  You assume that it's possible in the first place and then, based on this unproven premise, use this as an argument in favor of BoD.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Will be interested to hear thoughts on this new BOD/BOB book
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2018, 08:57:32 AM »
Here we go again... Let us know if you need a podiatrist recommendation for when your foot is surgically removed from your mouth.

Ah, yes, this puts on display the level of intellect that one will no doubt find throughout this tome.  This above was the answer to the contention, which has been amply proven over years here on CathInfo, that the BoDer ecclesiology is identical to that of the Vatican II establishment, and that all the Vatican II errors derive from this non-Catholic ecclesiology.  We have presented the arguments, and these have never been refuted.  In fact, no refutation has ever been attempted.  Instead, you get "rebuttals" such as the one quoted above.