Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: What Did Father Feeney Teach in Regards to The Old Covenant Faithful?  (Read 2924 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Binechi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2318
  • Reputation: +512/-40
  • Gender: Male
What Did Father Feeney Teach in Regards to The Old Covenant Faithful?
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2013, 10:57:47 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    I know he teaches that there is no exception to water baptism and that a soul can be justified and in a state of sanctifying grace but still not enter Heaven.  What more is there to know.  Perhaps I should read the writings of Luther while I'm at it.  

    If you can't answer the question then maybe someone else can.


    You need to read the good Father's own words instead of trying to get others to paraphrase what he taught and professed.  For instance, your above claim is simply false:

    Quote from: Bread of Life, page 56-57
    Q. Can anyone now be saved without Baptism of Water?

    A. No one can be saved without Baptism of Water.

    Q. Are the souls of those who die in the state of justification saved, if they have not received Baptism of Water?

    A. No. They are not saved.


    Q. Where do these souls go if they die in the state of justification but have not received Baptism of Water?

    A. I do not know.

    Q. Do they go to Hell?

    A. No.

    Q. Do they go to Heaven?

    A. No.

    Q. Are there any such souls?

    A. I do not know! Neither do you!

    Q. What are we to say to those who believe there are such souls?

    A. We must say to them that they are making reason prevail over Faith, and the laws of probability over the Providence of God.


    Father Feeney's The Bread of Life is attached.  Please read it!


    Quote
    I am here to say that Fr. Feeney in good conscience was wrong on his stating that one could be justified before Baptism.  That is brought out in his "I don t know answer".
    No one receives Justification until he enters the Church thru Sacramental Baptism

    c

    Offline Jehanne

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2561
    • Reputation: +459/-11
    • Gender: Male
    What Did Father Feeney Teach in Regards to The Old Covenant Faithful?
    « Reply #31 on: September 23, 2013, 11:14:55 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    "Bread of Life, page 56-57"]Q. Can anyone now be saved without Baptism of Water?

    A. No one can be saved without Baptism of Water.

    Q. Are the souls of those who die in the state of justification saved, if they have not received Baptism of Water?

    A. No. They are not saved.

    Again. I know what he taught and I know why he was wrong.

    Do you agree with him?

    Do you believe a person can be in a state of sanctifying grace and not go to Heaven?



    The bold red is Feeney, not the Catholic Church.


    You have little appreciation for the concept of theological opinion.  The Church never condemned Father Feeney for any of his theological ideas, just for his refusal (which was a mistake, in my opinion) for having not gone to Rome.  Father Feeney sent Pope Pius XII a copy of his The Bread of Life, and the work was never condemned.  Not even the SSPX condemns it, because the SSPX and certain "Feeneyite" groups have written agreements which allow "Feeneyites" to attend SSPX chapels and receive the Sacraments from SSPX priests.  What say you to that?!


    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8700
    • Reputation: +1159/-864
    • Gender: Male
    What Did Father Feeney Teach in Regards to The Old Covenant Faithful?
    « Reply #32 on: September 23, 2013, 11:17:48 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Director
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    I know he teaches that there is no exception to water baptism and that a soul can be justified and in a state of sanctifying grace but still not enter Heaven.  What more is there to know.  Perhaps I should read the writings of Luther while I'm at it.  

    If you can't answer the question then maybe someone else can.


    You need to read the good Father's own words instead of trying to get others to paraphrase what he taught and professed.  For instance, your above claim is simply false:

    Quote from: Bread of Life, page 56-57
    Q. Can anyone now be saved without Baptism of Water?

    A. No one can be saved without Baptism of Water.

    Q. Are the souls of those who die in the state of justification saved, if they have not received Baptism of Water?

    A. No. They are not saved.


    Q. Where do these souls go if they die in the state of justification but have not received Baptism of Water?

    A. I do not know.

    Q. Do they go to Hell?

    A. No.

    Q. Do they go to Heaven?

    A. No.

    Q. Are there any such souls?

    A. I do not know! Neither do you!

    Q. What are we to say to those who believe there are such souls?

    A. We must say to them that they are making reason prevail over Faith, and the laws of probability over the Providence of God.


    Father Feeney's The Bread of Life is attached.  Please read it!


    Quote
    I am here to say that Fr. Feeney in good conscience was wrong on his stating that one could be justified before Baptism.  That is brought out in his "I don t know answer".
    No one receives Justification until he enters the Church thru Sacramental Baptism

    c


    At least you are honestly approaching the question.  

    So many, who claim to follow the teaching of Feeney do not.  Many who claim to follow Feeney yet reject the above teaching by him, and accuse me of not knowing what he teaches, did not know it themselves.  

    I wonder what percentage of "Feeneyites" take your position over Father Feeneyites position.  I wonder what percentage of "Feeneyites" are even aware of the distinction.  How many in this forum, who claimed I don't know what he teaches were not aware of this distinction until I brought it up?  Not that I expect them to admit this but rather they will accuse me of lying again and of not knowing what he teaches or by only going by what Griff Ruby teaches etc.  

    At least you chime in without accusing me of any of the above.  

    What do you think of the following quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

    “A masterly, psychological description of the whole process of justification, which even Ad. Harnack styles "a magnificent work of art", will be found in the famous cap. vi, "Disponuntur" (Denzinger, n. 798). According to this the process of justification follows a regular order of progression in four stages: from faith to fear, from fear to hope, from hope to incipient charity, from incipient charity to contrition with purpose of amendment. If the contrition be perfect (contritio caritate perfecta), then active justification results, that is, the soul is immediately placed in the state of grace even before the reception of the sacrament of baptism or penance, though not without the desire for the sacrament (votum sacramenti).” http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06701a.htm

    One can enter the Church by desire and be justified/sanctified within that Church and obtain the beatific vision provided he die in the state of sanctifying grace.  

    Water baptism is necessary by Divine Precept but not by an intrinsic necessity.  Anyone aware of the precept but refuses to comply will be damned.  On this we agree.  But God and his Judgement on the inner state of the soul, his Justice and Mercy, and the circuмstance of each individual and whether he is in fact, objectively of good will or not all come into play and can be judged by no one other than God.  It is not black and white as we would prefer to see it.  Not to few non-members within the Church look better in the eyes of God than the actual visible members, such as all members in a state of mortal sin.  

    Sanctifying grace can be obtained by non-members as the above quote proves but it also can only be obtained within the Church which proves that non-members, provided they have all the other necessary requisites, can be within the Church.  So long as they are not culpable of their ignorance of the Church's necessity for salvation and so long as they have an effective desire to enter the Church with perfect charity and contrition.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8700
    • Reputation: +1159/-864
    • Gender: Male
    What Did Father Feeney Teach in Regards to The Old Covenant Faithful?
    « Reply #33 on: September 23, 2013, 11:20:59 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    "Bread of Life, page 56-57"]Q. Can anyone now be saved without Baptism of Water?

    A. No one can be saved without Baptism of Water.

    Q. Are the souls of those who die in the state of justification saved, if they have not received Baptism of Water?

    A. No. They are not saved.

    Again. I know what he taught and I know why he was wrong.

    Do you agree with him?

    Do you believe a person can be in a state of sanctifying grace and not go to Heaven?



    The bold red is Feeney, not the Catholic Church.


    You have little appreciation for the concept of theological opinion.  The Church never condemned Father Feeney for any of his theological ideas, just for his refusal (which was a mistake, in my opinion) for having not gone to Rome.  Father Feeney sent Pope Pius XII a copy of his The Bread of Life, and the work was never condemned.  Not even the SSPX condemns it, because the SSPX and certain "Feeneyite" groups have written agreements which allow "Feeneyites" to attend SSPX chapels and receive the Sacraments from SSPX priests.  What say you to that?!


    I have more appreciation for the concept of theological opinion than you wish to imagine.  I am well versed in the concept.  But here resort to accusations, against my person, again, which only God knows for sure.  It was his theological ideas that got him in trouble.  He taught these "ideas" as being de fide.  He insisted on water baptism in ALL instances as being necessary, at least in the new covenant.  And he came up with a novel anti-Catholic teaching, that those in the state of sanctifying grace would not go to Heaven if they were not baptized with water, to "support" his grave error for which he allowed absolutely no exceptions.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8700
    • Reputation: +1159/-864
    • Gender: Male
    What Did Father Feeney Teach in Regards to The Old Covenant Faithful?
    « Reply #34 on: September 23, 2013, 11:23:19 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    "Bread of Life, page 56-57"]Q. Can anyone now be saved without Baptism of Water?

    A. No one can be saved without Baptism of Water.

    Q. Are the souls of those who die in the state of justification saved, if they have not received Baptism of Water?

    A. No. They are not saved.

    Again. I know what he taught and I know why he was wrong.

    Do you agree with him?

    Do you believe a person can be in a state of sanctifying grace and not go to Heaven?



    The bold red is Feeney, not the Catholic Church.


    You have little appreciation for the concept of theological opinion.  The Church never condemned Father Feeney for any of his theological ideas, just for his refusal (which was a mistake, in my opinion) for having not gone to Rome.  Father Feeney sent Pope Pius XII a copy of his The Bread of Life, and the work was never condemned.  Not even the SSPX condemns it, because the SSPX and certain "Feeneyite" groups have written agreements which allow "Feeneyites" to attend SSPX chapels and receive the Sacraments from SSPX priests.  What say you to that?!


    I have said that if I were a Priest I would probably allow them to attend as well, so long as they kept to themselves on the issue.  But I would also probably weed them out as I would preach on the topic.  They would either start causing trouble with my other parishioners and I would kick them out or they would leave of their own accord because "I'm a heretic" that "ignores all the dogmas" I'm keenly aware of and agree with whole-hardheartedly.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8700
    • Reputation: +1159/-864
    • Gender: Male
    What Did Father Feeney Teach in Regards to The Old Covenant Faithful?
    « Reply #35 on: September 23, 2013, 11:24:30 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  Many of our friends have heard of Fr. Leonard Feeney, and some of them have a great esteem for this priest who fought against the liberal ecuмenism by recalling again and again that outside the Church there is no salvation. But, to make his point, Fr. Feeney went so far as to exclude Baptism of desire (and martyrdom) from the means of salvation. His teaching was then condemned by the Holy Office in 1949, and he himself was excommunicated in 1953. It should be sufficient to recall that this happened under the pontificate of the saintly Pope Pius XII, and that the letter of the Holy Office was signed by Cardinal Ottaviani, who was not a liberal either. However, certain good Catholics still try to exculpate Fr. Feeney by saying that the Holy See was misinformed, etc.

    Well, we have just to open his book The Bread of Life (first published in 1952), to see that his doctrine contradicts the Church’s teaching. Let St. Thomas Aquinas, the greatest theologian the Church has ever known, be the witness for the prosecution. His Summa Theologica [ST] is the reference book that all seminarians (Fr. Feeney not excepted) had to study according to the directives of St. Pius X and the 1917 Code of Canon Law.

    Original Sin, Sacramental Character, and Grace

    It seems that the fundamental error of Fr. Feeney is that, according to him, original sin is wiped away ONLY by the character imprinted on the soul by Baptism:

        Let us suppose an act of perfect love has occurred in a man’s soul. Can this man be said to be freed from original sin by this perfect act of love of God? He cannot, in the true and full sense. There has not been imprinted on his soul, by reason of this perfect act of love of God, the character which Baptism imprints, to seal him as redeemed and outfit him for the resurrection of the body and life everlasting. (Bread of Life, ch.V, p.98)

    Fr. Feeney does not deny that sanctifying grace can be obtained by an act of perfect charity, but he says it is not enough to be saved; according to him, just as nobody can become a priest without receiving the character of Holy Orders, so nobody can be saved without receiving the character of Baptism. Thus, since Baptism of desire and martyrdom do not imprint this character on the soul, they cannot save anyone! The flaw of his reasoning appears when we ask what happens to the souls in the state of grace who die without Baptism. He is at a loss to try to explain it; these souls are not saved, but he is obliged to say that they are not lost either!

        Where do these souls go...? I do not know. (Bread of Life, ch.VII, p.137)

    Now, the teaching of the Church is that original sin is blotted out by sanctifying grace, which is the only necessary title to be admitted to see God. To understand that, let us ask the help of St. Thomas. He explains: The sacramental character is "a certain spiritual power ordained unto things pertaining to the divine worship," a consecration by which the soul is marked so that it may receive the sacraments (baptismal character), or bestow them on others (priestly character), "a certain participation in Christ’s priesthood" (ST, IIIa, Q. 63).

    Sanctifying grace is "a participation in the divine nature" (cf. II Pet. 1:4) whereby man is united to God and "adopted as His son to whom the inheritance is due by right of adoption, according to Rom. 8:17: ‘if sons, heirs also’" (ST, Ia IIae, Q. 110, 111, 114). Thus, with these words of the Angelic Doctor, we can understand why the Council of Trent declares that original sin is washed away, not by the character, but by the grace of Baptism:

        If anyone denies that by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ which is conferred in Baptism the guilt of original sin is remitted... let him be anathema!1

    Indeed, it is grace, not the sacramental character, which is the remedy against sin:

        Man is sanctified by each of the sacraments, since sanctity means immunity from sin, which is the effect of grace. But in a special way some sacraments, which imprint a character, bestow on man a certain consecration, thus deputing him to the divine worship. (ST, IIIa, Q. 63)

    Here is the crux of the matter, for, although no sacramental character can be conferred without a sacrament, sanctifying grace can be given outside the sacraments:

        The divine power is not confined to the sacraments. Hence man can receive spiritual strength to confess the Faith of Christ publicly without receiving the sacrament of Confirmation just as he can also receive remission of sins without Baptism. (ST, IIIa, Q. 72).

    And thus we arrive at the question of Baptism of desire...

    "Three Baptisms"?

    In his book (ch.VII), Fr. Feeney suggests that Cardinal Gibbons invented the "heresy" of the three kinds of Baptism taught by the Baltimore Catechism. But, long before the "opportunist" Cardinal, St. Thomas spoke of these three kinds of Baptism, explaining:

        Baptism of water has its efficacy from Christ’s Passion, to which a man is conformed by Baptism, and also from the Holy Ghost as first cause. Now, although the effect depends on the first cause, the cause far surpasses the effect, nor does it depend on it.... Consequently, a man may, without Baptism of water, receive the sacramental effect from Christ’s Passion, insofar as he is conformed to Christ by suffering for Him (i.e., martyrdom). Hence it is written: These are they who are come out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes and have made them white in the Blood of the Lamb. (Apoc. 7:14)

    In like manner a man receives the effect of Baptism by the power of the Holy Ghost, not only without Baptism of water, but also without Baptism of blood: forasmuch as his heart is moved by the Holy Ghost to believe in and love God and to repent of his sins. Wherefore this is also called Baptism of repentance....Thus, therefore, each of these other Baptisms is called Baptism forasmuch as it takes the place of Baptism" (ST, IIIa, Q. 66). And St. Thomas quotes St. Augustine (who died in 430) himself relying on the teaching of St. Cyprian (who died in 258).

    However, Fr. Feeney tries to make us believe that the Fathers of the Church are on his side, and for this purpose he is obliged to interpret the sermon of St. Ambrose (died 397) quoted by the Catholic Encyclopedia concerning Baptism of desire (cf. Bread of Life, ch.VII, p.123). But Fr. Feeney’s interpretation does not stand the reading of the complete text:

        But I hear that you grieve because he did not receive the sacrament of Baptism. Tell me now, what else is in us, if not will, if not desire? He, in very truth had this wish that, before he came to Italy, he should be initiated into the Church, and he indicated that he wanted to be baptized by me very soon, and that is why he thought I had to be called before everything else. Did he not obtain the grace which he desired? Did he not obtain what he asked for? Certainly, because he asked for it, he obtained it. "But the just man, if he be prevented by death, shall be in rest" (Wisd. 4:7).... But if people are absolved in their own blood, then this man’s piety and desire absolved him. (De Obitu Valentiniani, 51-53).

    Clearly, according to St. Ambrose, the desire of Baptism, like martyrdom, replaces Baptism of water. It is also the teaching of the last of the Fathers, St. Bernard (died 1153), who recalls that with God the intention counts as the act when the act is excluded by necessity (cf. De Baptismo, II, 7). Finally, let us mention the case of the Jew who, at the point of death, baptized himself since he lived among Jews and could not get anyone to do it. Pope Innocent III (died 1216) says that this Baptism is not valid and that he should be baptized by another.

        If however, such a one had died immediately, he would have rushed to the heavenly home without delay because of the faith of the sacrament although not because of the sacrament of Faith.2

    Objections

    Against this doctrine of the three kinds of Baptism, Fr. Feeney brings up the words of St. Paul: "One Lord, one faith, one Baptism" (Eph. 4:5). But this objection has already been answered by St. Thomas:

        The other two Baptisms are included in the Baptism of water, which derives its efficacy both from Christ’s Passion and from the Holy Ghost. Consequently, for this reason the unity of Baptism is not destroyed. (ibid)

    In other words, Baptism of desire and Baptism of blood are called "Baptisms" only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of the sacrament of Baptism, namely the grace that remits sins.

    Fr. Feeney raised another objection, this time from the words of our Blessed Lord: "Unless a man be born again of water and of the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God" (Jn. 3:5). Likewise, St. Thomas had not waited for Fr. Feeney to answer:

        As it is written: "man seeth those things that appear, but the Lord beholdeth the heart" (I Kings 16:7). Now, a man who desires to be "born again of water and of the Holy Ghost" by Baptism is regenerated in heart though not in body.... The sacrament of Baptism is said to be necessary for salvation insofar as man cannot be saved without, at least, Baptism of desire, "which, with God, counts for the deed" (St. Augustine). (Summa Theologica, Part IIIa, Q. 68)

    Any Kind of Desire?

    Fr. Feeney thunders against "the heretical theology that turned Baptism of water into any dry desire one might have in the general direction of heaven" (cf. Bread of Life, ch. VII, p.117). But we do not claim that "any dry desire" is sufficient, not even a firm resolution to be baptized. St. Thomas explains:

        (A) man can obtain salvation without being actually baptized, on account of his desire for Baptism, which desire is the outcome of "faith that worketh by charity," whereby God, Whose power is not tied to visible sacraments, sanctifies man inwardly. (Summa Theologica, Part IIIa, Q. 68)

    More precisely, in the letter condemning the teaching of Fr. Feeney, the Holy Office declares:

        But it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith: "For he who comes to God must believe that God exists and is a rewarder of those who seek Him!" (Heb. 11:6). (August 8, 1949, to the Archbishop of Boston)

    In other words, someone not baptized cannot be saved without an act of perfect charity including, at least implicitly, the will to do all things necessary for salvation (and thus to receive Baptism). Our Lord Himself tells us that true charity remits sins and obtains His friendship:

        He that loves Me shall be loved of My Father and I will love him... and We will come to him and will make Our abode with him (Jn. 14:21-23), Many sins are forgiven her (Mary Magdalen) because she has loved much. (Lk. 7:47)

    These last words of our Lord to the repentant sinner are echoed by the teaching of the Council of Trent: contrition perfected by charity reconciles man to God.3

    Now, Fr. Feeney rightly points out that it is not at all easy to make a perfect act of charity and to remain in the state of grace without the help of the sacraments:

        How a man knows he has made a perfect act of love of God, I do not know!... Without the sacraments, we cannot determine for certain what is the value of our private acts. It is by way of discouraging this sanctificational self-sufficiency, that the inspired writer of the Book of Ecclesiastes was led to say: "man knoweth not whether he be worthy of love or hatred" (Eccl. 9:1).... Actually, no one who has not been baptized can stay in the state of Christian justification very long, because he does not have the sacramental helps to keep justification alive.... If we who are Catholics have a hard enough job to keep in the state of sanctifying grace, with all the prayers and sacramental helps we have, good God!, how is anyone without them going to stay in the state of a perfect act of love of God? (cf. Bread of Life, ch. VII, p.125,121).

    But, by saying that it is practically impossible, Fr. Feeney goes too far and wrongs God’s power (which is not limited to His sacraments), God’s mercy (which desires the salvation of all men, [I Tim. 2:4]), and God’s justice (no one is condemned if not guilty through his own fault).

    Conclusion

    Let us finally quote the letter of the Holy Office condemning Fr. Feeney’s teaching:

        That one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing. However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance, God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wants his will to be conformed to the Will of God. These things are clearly taught in the dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943 (Mystici Corporis)... he mentions those who are related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer "by a certain unconscious yearning and desire," and these he by no means excludes from eternal salvation; but on the other hand, he states that they are in a condition "in which they cannot be sure of their salvation" since "they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church!" With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire, and those who falsely assert that men can be saved equally as well in every religion. (Letter to the Archbishop of Boston, August 8, 1949).

    Footnotes
    1. Cc. Trid.: sessio V. Decretum de peccato originali, Dz 1515.

    2. Debitum officii pontificalis, August 28,1206; Dz 788.

    3. Cc. Trid.: sessio XIV, cap. IV; Dz 1678.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Binechi

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2318
    • Reputation: +512/-40
    • Gender: Male
    What Did Father Feeney Teach in Regards to The Old Covenant Faithful?
    « Reply #36 on: September 23, 2013, 12:48:40 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I believe you are getting Santyfing Grace mixed with Actual grace.  
    I hold to the No Santifying Grace until you enter the Church thru Water
    Baptism only.

    Let me ask you a question ,, do you hold to that there are three ways to salvation. ?  In other words , by Baptism of desire , Baptism of blood , and Baptism of water....

    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8700
    • Reputation: +1159/-864
    • Gender: Male
    What Did Father Feeney Teach in Regards to The Old Covenant Faithful?
    « Reply #37 on: September 23, 2013, 01:29:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Director
    I believe you are getting Santyfing Grace mixed with Actual grace.  
    I hold to the No Santifying Grace until you enter the Church thru Water
    Baptism only.

    Let me ask you a question ,, do you hold to that there are three ways to salvation. ?  In other words , by Baptism of desire , Baptism of blood , and Baptism of water....


    There is one baptism.  

    The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism [singlular] into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood.  (The Catholic Encyclopedia)

    You will note it says "divide" rather than "multiply" or "add".

    The other two "baptisms" are analogical, the produce the same effect as Sacramental Baptism by cleansing the soul of original sin and putting it in a state of sanctifying grace.  Such "baptisms" can only be obtained by those who are within the Church, at least by desire (see below).  

    The baptism of desire

    The baptism of desire (baptismus flaminis) is a perfect contrition of heart, and every act of perfect charity or pure love of God which contains, at least implicitly, a desire (votum) of baptism. The Latin word flamen is used because Flamen is a name for the Holy Ghost, Whose special office it is to move the heart to love God and to conceive penitence for sin. The "baptism of the Holy Ghost" is a term employed in the third century by the anonymous author of the book "De Rebaptismate". The efficacy of this baptism of desire to supply the place of the baptism of water, as to its principal effect, is proved from the words of Christ. After He had declared the necessity of baptism (John 3), He promised justifying grace for acts of charity or perfect contrition (John 14): "He that loveth Me, shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him and will manifest myself to him." And again: "If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and will make our abode with him." Since these texts declare that justifying grace is bestowed on account of acts of perfect charity or contrition, it is evident that these acts supply the place of baptism as to its principal effect, the remission of sins. This doctrine is set forth clearly by the Council of Trent. In the fourteenth session (cap. iv) the council teaches that contrition is sometimes perfected by charity, and reconciles man to God, before the Sacrament of Penance is received. In the fourth chapter of the sixth session, in speaking of the necessity of baptism, it says that men can not obtain original justice "except by the washing of regeneration or its desire" (voto). The same doctrine is taught by Pope Innocent III (cap. Debitum, iv, De Bapt.), and the contrary propositions are condemned by Popes Pius V and Gregory XII, in proscribing the 31st and 33rd propositions of Baius.

    We have already alluded to the funeral oration pronounced by St. Ambrose over the Emperor Valentinian II, a catechumen. The doctrine of the baptism of desire is here clearly set forth. St. Ambrose asks: "Did he not obtain the grace which he desired? Did he not obtain what he asked for? Certainly he obtained it because he asked for it." St. Augustine (On Baptism, Against the Donatists, IV.22) and St. Bernard (Ep. lxxvii, ad H. de S. Victore) likewise discourse in the same sense concerning the baptism of desire. If it be said that this doctrine contradicts the universal law of baptism made by Christ (John 3), the answer is that the lawgiver has made an exception (John 14) in favor of those who have the baptism of desire. Neither would it be a consequence of this doctrine that a person justified by the baptism of desire would thereby be dispensed from seeking after the baptism of water when the latter became a possibility. For, as has already been explained the baptismus flaminis contains the votum of receiving the baptismus aquæ. It is true that some of the Fathers of the Church arraign severely those who content themselves with the desire of receiving the sacrament of regeneration, but they are speaking of catechumens who of their own accord delay the reception of baptism from unpraiseworthy motives. Finally, it is to be noted that only adults are capable of receiving the baptism of desire.  (Catholic Encyclopedia)

    We can rest assured that the Fathers, Doctors, Popes and Saints who spoke to the issue were fully aware that there is only one Baptism.  Father Feeney was wrong for "realizing" they were all wrong.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline bowler

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3299
    • Reputation: +15/-2
    • Gender: Male
    What Did Father Feeney Teach in Regards to The Old Covenant Faithful?
    « Reply #38 on: September 23, 2013, 01:36:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    LOT wrote: We can rest assured that the Fathers, Doctors, Popes and Saints who spoke to the issue were fully aware that there is only one Baptism
    .

    What a BOD Hypocrite you are, for you deny ALL the the Fathers, Doctors,  Saints, and the Athanasian Creed in your belief that anyone who is unbaptized can be saved even if they explicitly do not want to be Catholic, nor believe in the Incarnation and the Trinity.

    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8700
    • Reputation: +1159/-864
    • Gender: Male
    What Did Father Feeney Teach in Regards to The Old Covenant Faithful?
    « Reply #39 on: September 23, 2013, 02:22:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • http://archives.sspx.org/miscellaneous/feeneyism/three_errors_of_feeneyites.htm

    The three errors of the Feeneyites

    Fr. Francois Laisney

    Originally printed in the September 1998 issue of The Angelus magazine, this article is a follow-up to Fr. Joseph Pfieffer’s article in The Angelus of March 1998. It seems that some of the followers of Fr. Feeney took objection to his convincing dissertation proving the Catholic teaching concerning "baptism of desire." In fairness, the purpose of this article by Fr. Laisney is to clarify the three principle errors of the followers of Fr. Feeney which explain why they refuse the common teaching of Catholic theologians concerning "baptism of desire."

    Error I:

    Misrepresentation of the dogma, "Outside the Church There Is No Salvation"

    The first error of those who take their doctrine from Rev. Fr. Leonard Feeney, commonly known as "Feeneyites," is that they misrepresent the dogma, "Outside the [Catholic] Church there is no salvation." The Feeneyites misrepresent this as, "Without baptism of water there is no salvation."

    St. Cyprian (c.210-258) was the first Catholic saint to use in writing[1] the expression "extra ecclesiam nulla salus," ("Outside the Church there is no salvation"). In the very passage in which he uses this phrase, St. Cyprian also expresses that baptism of water is inferior to baptism of blood. Since baptism of blood, he says, is not fruitful outside the Church, because "outside the Church there is no salvation," baptism of water also cannot be fruitful outside the Church. The reason for this is that it would imprint the character of baptism but would not give sanctifying grace, i.e., justification, which opens the gates of heaven.

    In the very next paragraph, St. Cyprian teaches, with all the fathers, doctors, popes and unanimously all theologians, that baptism of blood, that is, dying for the Catholic Faith, is the most glorious and perfect baptism of all, explicitly stating "even without the water." In the paragraph following this one, St. Cyprian teaches that Catholic faithful who, through no fault of their own, were received into the Catholic Church without a valid baptism,[2] would still go to heaven. This is to say that they would die with the requisite Catholic faith and charity, necessary to go to heaven, though without the waters of baptism. These requisites are exactly the conditions of "baptism of desire."

    Why not then believe the dogma "outside the Church there is no salvation" "...with the same sense and the same understanding - in eodem sensu eademque sententia"[3] - as the whole Catholic Church has taught it from the beginning, that is, including the "three baptisms"? Fr. Leonard Feeney and his followers give a new meaning, a new interpretation, to this dogma.

    This traditional interpretation of this dogma, including the "three baptisms," is that of St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, St. Fulgentius, St. Bernard, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Peter Canisius, St. Alphonsus de Liguori, Pope Innocent II, Pope Innocent III, the Council of Trent, Pope Pius IX, Pope St. Pius X, etc., and unanimously all theologians (prior to the modernists). St. Alphonsus says: "It is de fide [that is, it belongs to the Catholic Faith - Ed.] that there are some men saved also by the baptism of the Spirit."[4]

    The traditional interpretation of "Outside the Church there is no salvation," was approved by the Council of Florence (1438-1445). The Council Fathers present made theirs the doctrine of St. Thomas on baptism of desire, saying that for children one ought not to wait 40 or 80 days for their instruction, because for them there was "no other remedy."[5] This expression is taken directly from St. Thomas (Summa Theologica, IIIa, Q.68, A. 3) and it refers explicitly to baptism of desire (ST, IIIa, Q.68, A.2). Despite the fact that the Council of Florence espoused the doctrine of St. Thomas Aquinas, it is astonishing to see Feeneyites opposing this council to St. Thomas!

    None of the arguments of the Feeneyites have value against the rock of Tradition. But, to be consistent, let us refute two more of their major errors.

    Error II:

    The doctrine of baptism of desire is optional

    The Feeneyites present the Church’s doctrine of baptism of desire as a question to be freely discussed within the Church: "...what amounts to an academic difference to be settled by the Church."[6] If this were the case, each school of thought would then have to be accepted until the pope later defined this doctrine. This is false. The error here is to claim that only that which has already been defined belongs to the deposit of Faith, and everything else is opened to free discussion. The truth is that one must believe everything which belongs to the deposit of Faith, that being what has already been defined and that which is not yet defined but is unanimously taught by the Church.

    Such is the case for the doctrine on baptism of desire, by the Feeneyites’ own admission. They write: "This teaching [on the "three baptisms"] indeed was and is the common teaching of theologians since the early part of this millennium."[7] However, this was not only the "common teaching of theologians," but also that of popes, Doctors of the Church, and saints! In addition, it is found even before this millennium in the very early years of the Church without a single dissenting voice.

    Therefore one ought to believe in the doctrine of "three baptisms," as it belongs to the Catholic Faith, though not yet defined. That is why St. Alphonsus can say, as we have already reported: "It is de fide...."

    We can concede that if a point of doctrine is not yet defined, one may be excused in case of ignorance or may be allowed to discuss some precision within the doctrine. In the case of baptism of desire, for instance, we are allowed to discuss how explicit the Catholic Faith must be in one for baptism of desire. But one is not allowed to simply deny baptism of desire and reject the doctrine itself. Rigorism always tends to destroy the truth.

    He who denies a point of doctrine of the Church, knowing that it is unanimously taught in the Tradition of the Church, even though it is not yet defined, is not without sin against the virtue of Faith "without which [Faith] no one ever was justified" (Denzinger, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, 799; hereafter abbreviated Dz).

    Error III:

    The Council of Trent teaches that baptism of desire is sufficient for justification "but not for salvation"

    Let us preface this section by saying the Council of Trent clearly teaches that baptism of desire is sufficient for justification. The Council anathematizes anyone believing the contrary. It is very explicitly stated in Session VII, Canon 4 on the sacraments in general:

    If anyone says that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation, but that they are superfluous; and that men can, without the sacraments or the desire of them, obtain the grace of justification by faith alone, although it is true that not all the sacraments are necessary for each individual; let him be anathema (The Church Teaches, 668; Dz 847).

    We must be wary of ambiguous translations from the original Latin. (The accuracy of Latin is supreme and must be respected.) In a recent flyer published by the Feeneyites entitled, "Desire, Justification and Salvation at the Council of Trent," an ambiguous translation of Session VI, Chapter 7 (Dz 799) is used: "...the instrumental cause [of justification - Ed.] is the sacrament of baptism, which is the ‘sacrament of faith,’ without which no one is ever justified....". Now the Latin has: "sine qua nulli unquam contigit iustificatio." In the Latin original, therefore, the phrase "without which" (or, in the Latin original, "sine qua", is a feminine pronoun meant to agree with a feminine noun) refers to the "faith" (a feminine noun in Latin) and not to "sacrament" (a neuter noun in Latin meant to agree with a neuter pronoun). If it was "sacrament" the Council Fathers wanted to highlight "without which no one is ever justified," they would have written "sine quo."

    The English translation of Chapter 7 as found in The Church Teaches (TCT 563) accurately reflects the Latin (The Church Teaches, TAN Books & Publishers). In this edition, this important sentence is correctly translated: …The instrumental cause [of justification - Ed.] is the sacrament of baptism, which is the ‘sacrament of faith’; without faith no one has ever been justified."  The correct translation of the original Latin expresses the Church’s traditional teaching and refutes the Feeneyite error.

    When the Council of Trent is read carefully, we see that the Council teaches that:

        ...it is necessary to believe that the justified have everything necessary for them to be regarded as having completely satisfied the divine law for this life by their works, at least those which they have performed in God. And they may be regarded as having likewise truly merited the eternal life they will certainly attain in due time (if they but die in the state of grace) (see Apoc. 14:13; 606, can. 32), because Christ our Savior says: "He who drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst, but it will become in him a fountain of water, springing up into life everlasting" (see Jn. 4:13 ff.)[8] [Session VI, Chap. 16; Dz 809].

    In other words, salvation, which is at the end of the Christian life on earth, only requires perseverance in the state of grace received at justification, which is at the beginning of the Christian life on earth. Baptism is the sacrament of justification, the sacrament of the beginning of the Christian life. If one has received sanctifying grace, which is the reality of the sacrament - res sacramenti - of baptism, he only needs to persevere in that grace to be saved. Perseverance in grace requires obedience to the Commandments of God, including the commandment to receive the sacrament of baptism. Thus there remains for him the obligation to receive baptism of water. But, this is no longer absolutely necessary (by necessity of means), since he has already received by grace the ultimate fruit of that means. It still remains necessary in virtue of our Lord’s precept to be baptized by water. When and if circuмstances independent of our will prevent us from fulfilling such a precept, the principle taught by St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and others is to be applied: "God takes the will as the fact."[9] This means that God accepts the intention to receive the sacrament of baptism as equivalent to the actual reception of the sacrament.

    It is false to pretend that Canon 4 of Session VII (TCT 668) of the Council of Trent (quoted above) on the "Sacraments in General" deals with justification as opposed to salvation. Desire is explicitly mentioned in this canon, for when it uses the expression "aut eorum voto," it admits that the grace of justification can be obtained by desire of the sacraments. It is also false to say that Canon 5 on the Sacrament of Baptism from Session VII of the Council of Trent deals with salvation as opposed to justification. Indeed Canon 4 (of Session VII) deals explicitly with the necessity of sacraments "for salvation." In that context, the expression "grace of justification" appears manifestly as being precisely the only essential requisite for salvation, as is taught explicitly in Session VI, Chapter 16. That which is said of the sacraments in general applies to each sacrament in particular, without having to be repeated each time. Simplistic reasoning which disregards the explicit teaching of the Church on baptism of desire only arrives at false conclusions.

    That it is not necessary to repeat the clause "re aut voto" is so much the more true since baptism of desire is an exception, a special case, not the normal one. One need not mention exceptions each time one speaks of a law. For instance, there are many definitions of the Church on original sin that do not mention the Immaculate Conception. This does not invalidate the Immaculate Conception! For instance Pope St. Zosimus wrote: "nullus omnino  —absolutely nobody" (Dz 109a) was exempt of the guilt of original sin. Such a "definition" must be understood as the Church understands it, that is, in this particular case, not including the Blessed Virgin Mary. In the same way, it is sufficient that baptism of desire be explicitly taught by the Church, by the Council of Trent, in some place, but it is not necessary to expect it on every page of her teaching. Silence on an exception is not a negation of it. This principle is important to remember so as not to be deceived by a frequent technique of the Feeneyites. They accuмulate quotes on the general necessity of baptism as if these quotes were against baptism of desire. The very persons they quote hold explicitly the common teaching on baptism of desire! These quotes affirming the general necessity of baptism do not refer exclusively to baptism by water, nor do they exclude baptism of blood and/or of desire. They are to be understood "in the same sense and in the same words" as the Catholic Church has always understood them, which means to include baptism of blood and/or of desire along with that of water.

    Lack of proper Thomistic theology is the root of the error of the Feeneyites

    To remedy the errors of Modernism, St. Pius X ordered the study of St. Thomas Aquinas’s philosophy and theology. A book like Desire and Deception,[10] authored and published by Feeneyites, is very dangerous for its opposition to St. Thomas. Let us hear St. Pius X:

    We will and strictly ordain that scholastic philosophy be made the basis of the sacred sciences. And let it be clearly understood above all things that when We prescribe scholastic philosophy We understand chiefly that which the Angelic Doctor has bequeathed to us. They cannot set aside St. Thomas, especially in metaphysical questions, without grave disadvantage.[11]

    In obedience, we must consider the sacramental theology of St. Thomas Aquinas. He distinguishes three elements in each sacrament:

        the exterior sign, called sacramentum tantum - sacrament itself, signifying and producing the other two elements. This exterior sign is composed of matter such as water, and form such as the words of the sacrament.

        An intermediate reality, called sacramentum et re - sacrament and reality, which, in the case of baptism, is the character. This intermediate reality is both signified and produced by the exterior sign and further signifies and produces the third element.

        The ultimate reality, res sacramenti - the (ultimate) reality of the sacrament, which is the sacramental grace, i.e., sanctifying grace, as source of further actual graces to live as a child of God, as soldier of Christ, etc.

    A sacrament may be valid but not fruitful. To be valid the exterior sign needs valid matter, form, intention and the proper minister. If these are present, then it always signifies and produces the second element. To be fruitful, there must be no obstacle. Therefore, baptism in an heretical church, if done with proper matter, form, and intention, gives the character of baptism but does not give sanctifying grace. The person thus remains with original sin and actual sins. He has not become a child of God. Baptism is thus deprived of its ultimate effect, the most important one, because of the obstacle of a false faith, i.e., of heresy. In the same way, baptism in a Catholic Church of a person attached to his sin, for example, a person who has stolen and refuses to render that which he stole, places an obstacle which deprives his baptism of its ultimate effect, that is, sanctifying grace.

    It is a fact that one can go to hell despite having the character of baptism. Yet, we know there are saints in heaven, such as the saints of the Old Testament (Abraham, David, etc.) who do not have the character of baptism. But nobody, however, dying with sanctifying grace goes to hell, says the Council of Trent. Contrariwise, nobody dying without sanctifying grace goes to heaven.

    For the third element of baptism, i.e., the infusion of sacramental grace, the necessity of baptism for salvation is absolute. This third element is found in each of the "three baptisms," and even more perfectly in baptism of blood than in baptism of water, as is the constant teaching of the Church. Hence the common teaching on the necessity of Baptism[12] includes the "three baptisms."

    The necessity of the exterior element (#1 above) of baptism, i.e., the sacrament itself, is relative to the third element as the only means at our disposal to receive the third element, that is, living Faith. The sacrament itself is "...’the sacrament of faith’; without faith no one has ever been justified," says the Council of Trent (TCT 563). See how the Council of Trent clearly sets the absolute necessity on the third element, i.e., living faith, faith working through charity? One finds the same distinction in the Holy Scripture, in St. John’s Gospel (chap. 3). That which is absolutely necessary is the new birth, that is, the infusion of new life, sanctifying grace, the life of God in us. Five times Our Lord insists on the necessity to be reborn, "born of the Spirit." The water is mentioned only once as the means for that rebirth, the only means at our disposal. This is not meant to limit God’s power. He can infuse this new life (justification) even without water, as he did to Cornelius (Acts 10).

    There is an appalling confusion in the writings of the Feeneyites when they deal with the sacramental character and with what they refer to as "fulfilled/unfulfilled justice." Their confusion regards the second and third elements (see above) of the sacramental theology of the Catholic Church. Dare one add with St. Pius X, as the cause of their error, a certain pride that makes them more attached to their novelty than to the age-old teaching of the popes, fathers, doctors, and saints?

    Conclusion

        Brethren, the will of my heart, indeed, and my prayer to God, is for them unto salvation. For I bear witness, that they have a zeal of God,[13] but not according to knowledge (Rom. 10:1-2).

    How much I wish and pray that, relinquishing their error concerning baptism of desire and blood, they might embrace the whole of the Catholic Faith. Their error caricatures the Catholic Faith and gives easy weapons to the enemies of dogma!

        Not knowing the justice of God [interior sanctifying grace of justification by living faith] and seeking to establish their own [exterior belonging to the Church by exterior sacraments], [they] have not submitted themselves to the justice of God (cf. Rom. 10:3).

    We must defend the Catholic Faith, the absolute necessity of interior sanctifying grace as inseparable from true faith, hope and charity, and the necessity of the exterior sacraments "re aut voto - in reality or at least in desire" as taught by the Council of Trent.

    In this time of confusion in the teaching of the Church we must hold fast to the unchangeable teaching of the Tradition of the Church, believing what the Church has always believed and taught "in the same meaning and the same words," not changing one iota to the right or to the left, for falling from the Faith on one side or the other is still falling from the true Faith, "without faith no one has ever been justified" (Council of Trent, TCT 563).

    Let us pray that Our Lord Jesus Christ may give them the light to see and the grace to accept the age-old teaching of our holy Mother the Church by her popes, fathers, doctors and saints, and that, correcting themselves, they may serve the Church rather than change her doctrine.
    Footnotes

    1 Letter no. 73 (§21) to Jubaianus in 256.

    2 Having received an invalid baptism outside the Church, and being received into the Church without being at least rebaptized under condition. It was a hypothetical case at the time of St. Cyprian (in this was he in error) but it probably happens in some cases today, due to the laxity when receiving converts.

    3 Denzinger, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, 1800, Vatican I, de fide.

    4 "Baptism of the Spirit" is another name for baptism of desire, by the grace of the Holy Ghost; De Baptismo, cap. 1.

    5 In the very decree Cantate Domino to the Armenians so often quoted by the Feeneyites (Dz 712).

    6 Mancipia, July 1998, p.3.

    7 Mancipia, July 1998, p.2.

    8 Session VI, Chapter 16, Dz 809.

    For instance, in regards of a sick person in the hospital who cannot accomplish the precept of assisting at Mass on Sundays and feast days, his will to fulfil the third commandment is sufficient (ST, IIIa, Q.68, A.2, ad 3).

    9 Is it through ignorance, or by projecting his preconceived ideas, that the author claims that the Council of Florence "passed non-Thomist decrees" (p.47)?  Now to claim, as in Desire and Deception, that the Cantate Domino rejects baptism of blood is simply to ignore that the passage in question is a quote of St. Fulgentius, who, in the very same book from which that quote is taken, explicitly teaches baptism of blood. Council Fathers never quote a Father of the Church against the mind of such holy authors.

    10 Pascendi, Sept. 8, 1907.

    12 As in the Council of Trent, Canons on the Sacrament of Baptism, Canon 5: "If anyone says that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema" (Dz 861, TCT 691).

    Canon 2 (Dz 858, TCT 688) does not deal with the necessity of baptism, but with the nature of the sacrament. It defines that real water, not symbolic, is of the nature of the sacrament: "If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary in baptism, and therefore interprets metaphorically the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, ‘unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit’ (Jn. 3:5): let him be anathema." Water, real water, belongs to the first element of sacrament, the exterior sign.
    Thus one sees clearly the sophism of the Feeneyite pamphlet where it is written: "In terms of a syllogism we have the infallible major premise: ‘baptism is necessary for salvation’ and the infallible minor premise: ‘true and natural water is necessary for baptism,’ and the infallible conclusion. ‘true and natural water is necessary for salvation.’" Here one finds a classical error of logic: the middle term "baptism" is not taken in the same acceptation in the major and the minor. The major applies absolutely to the third element of baptism, res sacramenti, the ultimate reality of the sacrament, i.e., the new birth, the new life of sanctifying grace, which is found in the "three baptisms." It applies only relatively to the first element of baptism as explained above. The minor deals only with the first element of baptism, sacramentum tantum, of which the matter is real water and not symbolic water, as some Protestants were saying.

    13 The very saints the Feeneyites offer for admiration and imitation in their publications themselves taught baptism of desire! St. Alphonsus, and certainly all the holy Redemptorists after him is the most forceful in favor of baptism of desire, saying that it is de fide that there are some men saved also by the baptism of the Spirit.
    Fr. Francois Laisney, a Frenchman, was ordained for the SSPX in 1982 at Econe by Archbishop Lefebvre. He was the USA District Superior from 1984-1990, it was then that he developed an interest in the uniquely American error of Feeneyism. He was then appointed District Bursar for the Australian District for a short time before being appointed its District Superior (1991-1994). He served as the SSPX’s General Bursar in Menzingen, Switzerland from 1994 until 2001. He is currently the District Bursar for the Australian District.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church