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Author Topic: The salvation of those outside the Church  (Read 6302 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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The salvation of those outside the Church
« on: July 28, 2014, 06:54:30 AM »
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  • Started from another thread referencing this Post

    Quote from: MyrnaM
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    you have the nerve to say that I and/or CMRI denies EENS. Read their web site and prove it.


    CMRI has twice published an article entitled "The Salvation of Those Outside the Church" ... a WORD FOR WORD contradiction of EENS.


    I posted that article in the library on this forum...read it and weep, Ladislaus

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=26486&f=16&min=0&num=5
     
       



    I posted the below article in a readable format in order for Catholics here on CI  to enumerate the errors within this article from CMRI, written by Fr. Noel Barbara.

    I quickly was overwhelmed by the amount and scope of errors, and found that the below article could have been written by any Novus Oddo priest or bishop - or layperson for that matter.

    So I stopped pointing out the lies and falsehoods after only the first few lies in the article (in blue) and will leave the rest for other the Catholics here on CI to post the truth against the lies in the article from Fr. Noel Barbara.  








    THE SALVATION OF THOSE OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH as Ladislaus enunciated, is "a word for word contradiction of EENS"

         "There is only one universal Church, outside of which absolutely no one can be saved." (Infallibly decreed by Pope Innocent III in the Fourth Lateran Council, 1215) Gregory XVI gave enunciation to this dogma which is "one of the most important and most clearly enunciated" teachings of our religion.

         How are we to understand his words? The reason Fr. Noel Barbara asks: "how are we to understand his words?" after Gregory XVI just said the dogma means exactly what it says, is because Fr. Noel Barbara is about to write an essay in order to introduce a lie and explain why the words of both the dogma and Pope Gregory's enunciation of it actually do not mean what they say - this is done with the spirit of Vatican 2 in mind where even after interpretation, all papal docuмents remain ambiguous.

         As they were meant to be understood by the Apostles, This is the first outright lie. The First Vatican Council decrees that we must understand dogma "as once declared". Here we see Fr. Noel starts off his explanation with a lie. This is almost always the #1 essential step in the adulteration of dogma - to start off with a lie in order to change the meaning of the sacred dogma into a meaningless formula under the pretext of a better understanding - this is explicitly condemned by the First Vatican Council.  the Apostolic Fathers and all the Doctors.  The word of God can never change.  As our Master said, "The sky and the earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Mark XIII:31).


         Whosoever wishes to be faithful to the Lord should
    "absolutely reject the heretical supposition that dogmas
    evolve, as a result of which their meaning can change and
    become different from that which the Church first imparted to
    them" ("Antimodernist Oath", Denzinger 2145,4).

         Such being the case, the Church today, as she has always
    done, clearly teaches that outside of her, no one can be saved.

         In the face of this, must one believe that everyone,
    without exception, who does not OFFICIALLY belong to the Church
    by means of the reception of Baptism and the public profession
    of the Catholic faith, is damned?  Not at all.  Listen to the
    words of Pope Pius IX: "God in his sovereign bounty and mercy
    does not allow that a person who is not guilty of a voluntary
    fault should be subject to eternal punishment" (Letter "Quanto
    conficiamur").  In order to help us understand the possibility
    of salvation for "non-Catholics", I shall review the nature of
    the Church, and how, by means of her, God in His Mercy
    regenerates souls and saves them.

                               WHAT IS THE CHURCH?

         Recalling an expression used by St. Paul (Col. I:24), Pope
    Pius XII said that the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ:
    "Mystici Corporis Christi quod est Ecclesia", and, in doing so,
    confirmed the answer Joan of Arc gave to her judges when she
    said: "In my opinion the Church and Christ are one and the same
    thing."

         "The Church", said dom Grea, "is Christ Himself; the
    Church is the "fullness" and the achievement of Christ, "His
    Body" and his true and mystical growth: The Church which is His
    Body, and the fullness of him who is filled all in all (Eph.
    I:22-23).  And so it is that the Church occupies among the
    works of God the very place of Christ.  Christ and the Church
    are one and the same work of God" ("L'Eglise et sa constitution
    divine", p. 18).

         Surely it is clear from this that there can only be one
    institution which is the authentic Church of Christ.

         HOW ARE WE TO RECOGNIZE THE CHURCH?

         Foreseeing that innumerable Churches would claim to be
    this unique institution, Christ took great pains to delineate
    the nature of His Church and to distinguish it from all the
    others.  He did this at Caesarea Philippi.  After having told
    Simon bar Jona that he was Peter, Jesus declared "upon this
    rock I will build my Church" (Matt. XVI:18).  The Master did
    not say "a Church", but "MY Church".  This possessive adjective
    makes it abundantly clear that of all the religious societies
    which claim to belong to Him, only the Roman Catholic Church,
    which is built upon the rock of Peter, is the authentic Church
    of Christ; the others, which reject this rock, cannot be such.
    The dogma in question must therefore be understood in this
    manner: "Outside of the Roman Catholic Church, absolutely no
    one will be saved".[1]

         The Mystical Body of Christ, the true Church, participates
    in the mystery of the Incarnation.  Just as her Head, that is
    Jesus Christ, is both true Man and true God, so also the
    Catholic Church is at one and the same time both human and
    divine, a material and a spiritual entity.

         THE BODY OF THE CHURCH, that which renders her visible and
    constitutes as it were "a flag raised over the nations", is
    first of all those members of which she is composed.  Also
    pertaining to the body of the Church is the public profession
    of the faith by these members, the sensible signs by means of
    which she communicates to them the divine life, and finally,
    the entire ensemble of her rites and monuments.

         THE MEMBERS OF HER BODY are all those who have received
    the laver of regeneration or Baptism.  This is the sacrament of
    the faith which Jesus instituted in order to bring together all
    those whom the Father had called and chosen (John XV:16,
    VI:44).  As members of a visible body, they publicly profess
    the Catholic faith.

         OUTSIDE AND SEPARATED FROM THE BODY OF THE CHURCH are all
    those who have been so unfortunate as to commit the sin of
    heresy, schism or apostasy, as well as those who have been
    excluded by legitimate authority.

         THE SOUL OF THE CHURCH or her divine aspect is above all
    the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Jesus.  It is He who gives life
    to the Church, who illuminates and directs her.  It is also
    this divine life which, descending from the Head, vivifies all
    the members and binds them together.  Finally, the Soul of the
    Church consists of "the theological virtues faith, hope and
    charity, the gifts of grace from the Holy Spirit, and all the
    celestial treasures which are derived from the merits of Christ
    the Redeemer, and of the Saints" ("Catechism of Saint Pius X").

         BELONGING TO THE SOUL OF THE CHURCH are all those in whom
    the Holy Spirit dwells.[3]  These are those who have theological
    faith, possess the divine life and are in a state of grace.
    The primary effect of the Holy Spirit in the soul is to
    sanctify it.

         While sinners have separated themselves from the Soul of
    the Church, they remain always united to her body.  Pope Pius
    XII recalled this in his encyclical "Mystici Corporis": "It is
    necessary to recognize that the infinite mercy of Our Lord
    makes it impossible for Him to refuse a place in His Mystical
    Body to those whom He had previously not refused a place at his
    banquet table (Matt. IX:11).  For no fault, not even a most
    serious sin - schism, heresy and apostasy apart - can separate
    one from the Body of the Church."

         SEPARATED FROM THE SOUL OF THE CHURCH are all those who,
    as a result of some mortal sin, are no longer in a state of
    grace.  They have in effect expelled the Holy Spirit from their
    souls because He cannot live in a soul that is stained by
    mortal sin.

                            SALVATION COMES FROM GOD

         It is a truth of our faith, one that as Catholics we must
    believe, that there is no salvation apart from Jesus Christ.
    Since the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, it is by means
    of her that salvation is of necessity made available to us.  In
    what way does this happen?

         THE ORDINARY MANNER

         God bestows His gifts with consummate grace and
    generosity.  In order to make it possible for men to save
    themselves more easily, His Son instituted and made available
    to them true sources of grace in the sacraments.  God has
    obligated Himself to give us graces by these sensible signs,
    and He is always faithful to His promises.  Each time a
    sacrament is properly administered, by one who has the power to
    do so, and as long as men do not hinder His action, God is
    obliged to provide them with the grace signified.  This is the
    constant teaching of the Catholic Church.

         THE EXTRAORDINARY MANNER

         If the Church teaches that the sacraments instituted by
    the Son of God made man oblige the Father to give His graces to
    whomsoever validly receives them, she has never taught that His
    generosity is restricted to this methodology.  If the Lord was
    obliged to give those who labored the entire day the denarius
    he had agreed upon, His Son reminds us that He did no wrong in
    giving as much to those to whom He had promised nothing.  Who
    can be so presumptuous as to pretend that He is not allowed to
    do as He wishes?  What upright soul can take offense at His
    generosity? (Read Matt. XX:1-16).  It is then clear that God,
    who has promised to give His graces through these ordinary
    means of the sacraments, can also give them in an extraordinary
    manner.  Holy Scripture provides us with numerous examples of
    this.  Thus, Saint Dismas, the good thief, received the grace
    of regeneration without any sacrament, and this with such
    efficacy that Our Lord said to him, "This very day you will be
    with me in Paradise" (Luke XXIII:43).

         Again, it was without the medium of any sacrament that the
    Virgin Mary, the Apostles and "the brothers who numbered around
    120" (Acts I:15), "all together in one place" (II:1), were
    filled with the Holy Spirit and were confirmed.

         The centurion Cornelius, his parents, servants and most
    intimate friends also received the Holy Spirit and were
    gathered into the Soul of the Church before even being Baptized
    by Peter.  Baptism brought them into the Body of the Church,
    but not into her Soul, for they were joined to the latter as
    soon as they received the Holy Spirit (Acts X:44-48).

         Closer to our own time we can cite the case of Ratisbonne,
    a Jew who was overcome by grace on January 20, 1842 while in
    the church of Saint Andrew in Rome.  He changed from a state of
    complete disbelief and hostility to the Church to one of
    complete acceptance of the Catholic faith.  At the same time he
    received a knowledge of the Christian mysteries that he had
    never studied.  Like his co-religionist Paul of Tarsus, Baptism
    attached Ratisbonne only to the Body of the Church.  He
    belonged to the Soul of the Church from the moment of his
    conversion, thanks to the virtue of theological faith.

         These examples show with a certitude which cannot be
    denied that it is possible to belong to the Soul of the Church
    without belonging to her Body, and that God can bestow His
    graces in an extraordinary manner which is independent of the
    sacraments.

         WHO IS ASSURED OF HIS SALVATION?

         It is important that we remember that what saves us from
    eternal damnation is not belonging to the Body of the Church,
    but rather belonging to the Soul of the Church.  The Church has
    always taught that the baptized who die in a state of mortal
    sin which has not been forgiven, are damned despite their
    belonging to the Body of the Church.  Without doubt, it is not
    possible for those who refuse to attach themselves to the Body
    of the Church to belong to her Soul.  But is it possible for
    those who, without any fault of their own, cannot receive
    baptism of water or explicitly formulate an act of Catholic
    faith in order to be part of the Body of the Church to belong
    to the Soul of the Church and be assured of their salvation?
    The response to this question provides us with the solution to
    the problem which the salvation of non-Catholics raises.

         By means of the letter "Quanto conficiamur" given to the
    Italian episcopacy (on August 10, 1863), Pius IX clarified this
    matter in a striking manner.  "We know", he said, "that those
    WHO ARE INVINCIBLY IGNORANT OF OUR MOST HOLY RELIGION, AND WHO
    OBSERVE WITH CARE THE NATURAL LAW AND ITS PRECEPTS, written by
    God in the hearts of all men, AND WHO ARE DISPOSED TO OBEY GOD,
    and who live a life which is honest and upright, can, with the
    aid of the light of divine grace, acquire eternal salvation."

         If they can acquire eternal life without belonging to the
    Body of the Church, it is because they are united to her Soul.
    Under what conditions does this occur?  The papal text goes on
    to explain.

                                THE NON-CATHOLICS

         This phrase is very vague.  It designates individuals who
    span the spectrum from schismatic Christians to atheists, and
    embraces in between a host of religious groups, both Christian
    and non-Christian.  If all, in so far as they are non-Catholic,
    are outside the Ark of Salvation, not all have the same degree
    of difficulty in order to overcome the obstacles and enter into
    this Ark.  The followers of Photius (the Orthodox) need only
    accept those dogmas which relate to the primacy and
    infallibility of the Pope.[2]  The followers of Luther, who
    deny almost all the Catholic dogmas, have much greater
    obstacles to overcome.  As for the Jews and Muslims, obstinate
    in their opposition to the divine mysteries (the Trinity and
    Christology), they are faced with the problem of denying
    principles that are fundamental to their religion if they wish
    to truly enter into the way of salvation.

         With regard to these latter and all those who deny the
    mysteries of God, it is necessary to make the following point.
    If it is possible that non-Catholics can belong to the Soul of
    the Church while in good faith knowing nothing of the divine
    Mysteries, this is absolutely impossible for those who
    blaspheme against them.  Those who imprecate (blaspheme
    against) these mysteries clearly manifest that they are not
    animated by the good Spirit and that they do not belong to the
    Soul of the Church .

                 NECESSARY CONDITIONS WHICH MUST BE FULFILLED
             FOR NON-CATHOLICS TO BELONG TO THE SOUL OF THE CHURCH

         INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE

         This is the error in which those who without any fault on
    their part find themselves.  It presumes good faith.  It can be
    met with among those to whom the true religion has never been
    presented, and among those to whom it has been presented and to
    whom, despite this, it does not appear to be the truth.  Such
    is to be found in parts of the world which are completely
    adherent to the schismatic churches or some other cult, such as
    Islam, Judaism, Protestantism, etc.  This ignorance excuses
    those involved of all culpability.  One calls this invincible
    because they are prevented from abandoning their errors
    precisely because they believe they are adhering to the truth.

         Invincible ignorance only excuses the faults committed
    against the existence, the nature and the demands of the one
    true religion.  It never excuses those faults that go against
    the precepts of natural law since such are "written in the
    hearts of all men by God Himself".

         IT IS NECESSARY TO CAREFULLY OBEY THE NATURAL LAW AND ALL
    ITS PRECEPTS.

         Among the demands of this law, and in fact of primary
    importance, are our duties towards God.  Whatever his state or
    condition, man is obliged to recognize the existence of God,
    His sovereignty, and believe that He rewards man for the good
    that he does, and punishes him for the evil that he does.
    "Without faith", St. Paul affirms, "it is impossible to please
    God.  It is necessary for a person who comes to God to believe
    that He exists, that He rewards those that seek after Him"
    (Heb. XI:6).  Such excludes from salvation all those non-
    Catholics who are atheists, be they of the militant or
    indifferent variety.

         We know from St. Paul the reasons for their culpability.
    "Because that which is known of God is manifest in them.  For
    God hath manifested it unto them.  For the invisible things of
    Him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being
    understood by the things that are made; His eternal power also,
    and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.  Because that, when
    they knew God, they have not glorified Him as God, or given
    thanks" (Rom. I:19-21).  The Church recalled this teaching of
    the faith at Vatican I: "If anyone says that the one and true
    God, our Creator and Lord, cannot be known with certitude by
    means of His works, thanks to the natural light of human
    reason, let him be anathema" (Const. "Dei Filius", Denz.
    1806).

         IT IS NECESSARY TO BE DISPOSED TO OBEY GOD AND IN ALL
    THINGS TO DESIRE HIS GOOD PLEASURE.

         In his Encyclical "Mystici Corporis Christi", Pope Pius
    XII, after having distinguished between those who are actually
    incorporated into the Church, and those who are united only by
    desire to her soul, adds: "However, one should not think that
    any kind of desire to be part of the Church suffices for the
    salvation of one's soul.  The desire required is one animated
    by perfect charity".  In so stating, Pius XII was but
    reiterating the third condition specified by Pius IX.

         The law of love should express itself by action rather
    than by words: "It is not all those who say Lord, Lord, but
    those who do the will of my Father who will enter into the
    kingdom of heaven" (Cf. Matt. VII:21).

         This disposition in everything to do the will of God is an
    indication of their implicit but true desire to adhere to the
    Catholic Church.  Their faith in God is not dead because it is
    productive of fruit.  In essence, they are not content merely
    with believing; they make their conduct conform to their
    belief, and this concordance of their will with that of God
    makes them implicitly, but truly, desire the Baptism that Jesus
    instituted in order to incorporate them into His Church if they
    are not Christian, and makes them disposed to abjure the errors
    which maintain them outside of the Church if they are misled
    and are in a schismatical or heretical sect.  Unquestionably,
    if they were aware of the fact, they would abjure their errors,
    as they are well disposed to submit to His will.  It is this
    disposition, this charity which God has given them, which
    inclines them to "do the will of the Father in Heaven", and
    which gathers them into the soul of the Church.

         ARE YOU NOT SETTING UP IMPOSSIBLE CRITERIA?

         Some think that all these conditions cannot be fulfilled,
    especially among those souls that have never known the true
    religion.  As they see it, to demand such criteria is
    equivalent to condemning virtually all non-Catholics to eternal
    damnation.  But they are quite wrong.  Those who see things in
    this way forget the words of Jesus to His disciples when they
    questioned Him precisely on the issue of how it was possible
    for anyone to save his soul: "With men it is impossible, but
    not with God: for all things are possible with God" (Mark
    X:27).

         If God helps non-Catholics to save their souls outside of
    the norms established by His Son, it is because He would "have
    all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth"
    (I Tim. II:4).  This desire induces the Father to continuously
    draw souls (John VI:44) that His Son chooses (John XV:16).  In
    order to enlighten them, He normally uses the ministers of His
    Church.  But this habitual disposition in no way hinders Him
    from drawing some souls directly and without any minister
    whatsoever, and regardless of the situation in which they find
    themselves.  God, who wishes the salvation of every soul,
    provides every soul with the necessary graces.  To that degree
    that a given soul responds to graces bestowed, it receives yet
    further graces, "for it is God that worketh in you, both to
    will and to accomplish" (Phil. II:13).  It is thus that the
    most profound transformations occur little by little in souls
    of good will and dispose such souls above all to desire to do
    the will of God whom they adore "in truth".  Not all these
    souls are visited with extraordinary graces which transform
    them "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" (I Cor. XV:52)
    as occurred to Saul or Ratisbonne.  It is "the wisdom of God
    which visits them ... for wisdom is more active than all active
    things ...  Wisdom is the splendor of the eternal light ...
    which renews all things and through the nations conveyeth
    herself into holy souls, she maketh the friends of God ...  She
    reacheth from one end of the world to the other and ordereth
    all things sweetly" (Wisdom, VII:24-27, VIII:1).  This is that
    sweetness "for the forgiveness of their sins"; this is that
    "visit of the rising Sun from on high[4] which enlightens those
    who are in darkness and in the shadow of death and directs them
    in the way of peace" that Zacharias sang of in his "Benedictus"
    canticle which was and is in effect "the entrails of the
    mercy[5] of our God" (Luke I:78-79).

                   A CATHOLIC RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION RAISED

         We are able, in complete accord with Catholic teaching, to
    respond in the affirmative to the question which was raised
    above.  Yes indeed, through the great mercy of our God, it is
    possible that non-Catholics belong to the Soul of the Church by
    an implicit desire, by a desire animated by perfect charity,
    even though they do not belong to the visible Body of the
    Church.

         Are there many such?  Only God Himself knows.  "The works
    of man, Ecclesiastes tells us, are in the hands of God, and man
    knoweth not whether he be worthy of love or hatred" (IX:1).
    Only Jesus, the good pastor "knows His sheep ... even those
    that are not yet of His sheepfold" (John X:14&16).  As for us,
    if we truly love our master, we should hope that the number of
    non-Catholics who belong to the soul of the Church will always
    increase.  And in order to be sure that such a desire is not
    void of content, we should work as hard as we can to enlighten
    such souls, above all in praying for them and in making
    sacrifices in order that God might, by means of His Holy
    Spirit, enlighten them so that they might be renewed in their
    dispositions with regard to the true religion.

         Now, even though these non-Catholics belong to Christ by
    means of their union with the Soul of His Church, one should
    nevertheless never forget that they are in a state "where no
    one can be sure of his eternal salvation; for, as the Pope
    assures us, they are deprived of those many and most important
    supports and heavenly favors that can only be found within the
    bosom of the Catholic Church" ("Mystici Corporis Christi").
    Let us consider some of those helps of which they are deprived.

         The Roman Catholic Church is HIS Church.  It is the Church
    to whom Our Lord confided all that He learned of His Father
    (John XV:15), and it is the ministers of His Church that He
    sent forth as His Father sent Him (John XX:21), to teach all
    nations to observe EVERYTHING that He commanded (Matthew
    XXVIII:19-20).  Outside of this Church souls lack access to ALL
    that He taught.  Now Jesus warned His own that "if you continue
    in my word ... you will know the truth and the truth will make
    you free" (John VIII:31-32).  Being separated from His Church,
    non-Catholics are bound to be in error on one or more points.
    Now, just as the truth frees and sanctifies those that accept
    it (John XVII:17), so also is error the work of the devil which
    enslaves those who follow it (John VIII:44).

         It is also to HIS Church that Jesus confided the seven
    sacraments; non-Catholics are deprived of this, and this
    deprivation can only make their perseverance in the path of
    salvation more precarious.  While there is no doubt but that
    some of the sects have preserved the priestly function intact
    and this for them is a source of grace, unfortunately for them,
    they use it in a reprehensible manner.  For, in effect, it is
    to HIS Church that the sacraments were confided, and not to
    those who have broken away from her.  In conferring on the
    ministers that she ordains this inamissible power (i.e., a
    power that cannot be lost), the Church is placing her
    confidence in them.  Never would she have confided this power
    to them if she thought they would defect from her.  Surely any
    honest individual can understand that a person who leaves a
    society no longer has the right to use those powers which said
    society confided to him.  If he does so in spite of this
    defection, he is guilty of an abuse for which he will one day
    have to answer.

         Sacraments conferred under such circuмstances are
    productive of [spiritual] life to those who accept them in
    perfect good faith and place no obstacle to their reception.
    For all others, they are productive of spiritual death.

         Another support which is by no means the least of which
    non Catholics - schismatics apart - are deprived is that of the
    sacrament of penance.  If even within the Church where one
    enjoys the greatest of possible benefits, one must "work out
    one's salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil. II:12), how
    much more one should tremble for the salvation of those who do
    not belong to her body!  The ability to commit mortal sin is
    not limited to Catholics.  Now it is a dogma of our faith that
    every mortal sin which is not forgiven merits by its very
    nature eternal hell.  While it is easy to commit a mortal sin,
    it is much more difficult to escape its effects.  This is the
    reason why Our Lord instituted the sacrament of penance which
    the Fathers of the Church call a second baptism and the second
    safeguard of salvation.  While a Catholic who finds himself
    incapable of achieving a state of perfect contrition can still
    be forgiven by means of this sacrament of penance, the
    non-Catholic who is deprived of this sacrament can only be
    forgiven by attaining a state of perfect contrition.[6]  From
    this fact alone one can see how privileged, with regard to the
    matter of salvation, are those who belong to the Body of the
    Church and who as a result can so easily enjoy the treasures of
    her graces.  And as opposed to these, how disadvantaged are
    those who are deprived of such favors!  Pius XII spoke to us of
    those who are in a state "where no one can be sure of his
    eternal salvation".  One should not be surprised that God
    wished these facilities, and His Son has established HIS
    Church, precisely to make salvation easier to those who wished
    to enter it.

                                   CONCLUSION

         It is precisely because the true Church of Christ took
    this dogma seriously that she has desired to be a missionary
    Church since Apostolic times.  In this she is but reflecting
    the word of the Master who made her aware of the terrible
    danger that those who do not know her to be the only Ark of
    Salvation and continue to live in the darkness of idolatry, or
    other religions, or in heresy and schism, run with regard to
    their eternal salvation.  This is why she sends forth so many
    thousands of her sons and daughters at the risk of their lives
    to enlighten non-believers.

         And in so doing the Catholic Church is aware of the fact
    that she is responding faithfully to the command of Our Lord:
    "Go forth to all the nations and make disciples, baptizing them
    in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
    teaching them to observe all those things which I have
    commanded you.  He who believes and is baptized will be saved;
    but he who does not believe will be condemned" (Matt. XXVIII:
    19-20; Mark XVI:16).

         It is because of her faithfulness to her Lord that this
    same Catholic Church has a special Mass entitled "De Progaganda
    Fide" in her Missal, a Mass in which she recalls that "her Lord
    is great and infinitely worthy of praise; for He is more
    powerful than all the other gods.  FOR ALL THE GODS OF THE
    PEOPLES ARE ONLY DEMONS" (Tractus).

         It is again because of her faithfulness to her Lord who
    became flesh and offered himself on the Cross for the salvation
    of all men that the Catholic Church multiplies her prayers and
    beseeches her children to make sacrifices "in order that God
    might provide workers for the harvest" (Matt. IX:38), and that
    He might send His Holy Spirit to renew the face of the earth
    and enlighten those who are "seated in darkness and in the
    shadow of death" (Luke I:79).  The Apostle strongly recommends
    this practice to his dear Timothy: "I desire first of all that
    supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgiving be made
    for all men ... for this is good and acceptable in the sight of
    God our Saviour" (I Tim. II:1-3).

                                     

    ENDNOTES:

    [1]  "In order to define and to describe this true Church of
    Jesus Christ - that is to say the "holy Catholic Apostolic and
    Roman Church" - one can find no finer expression, none that is
    more divine, than "the Mystical Body of Christ" (Pope Pius XII,
    Encyclical "Mystici Corporis Christi").

    [2]  Invincible ignorance of these dogmas is easily met with
    among a people and clergy that are badly educated.

    [3]  Whosoever belongs to the Soul of the Church possesses the
    Spirit of Jesus.

    [4]  "Oriens ex alto", a biblical expression designating the
    Messiah (Cf. Zacharias VI:12), the splendor of the eternal
    Light, the Sun of Justice "that enlighteneth EVERY MAN who
    comes into the world" (John I:9).

    [5]  A footnote in The French Bible (of Fillion) tells us that
    this Canticle is the most powerful expression of the most
    intimate mercy of God who wishes to save all men.

    [6]  The distinction is easily seen if one considers the Act of
    Contrition.  An imperfect act of contrition is one which is
    made because of the fear of the loss of heaven and the pains of
    hell.  A perfect act of contrition requires that it be for the
    love of God (i.e., perfect charity) who is infinitely good and
    worthy of all our love.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Ladislaus

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    The salvation of those outside the Church
    « Reply #1 on: July 28, 2014, 09:00:14 AM »
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  • I have rarely seen defense of BoD that doesn't mire itself in myriad errors and heresies and self-contradictions; this is no exception.


    Offline JPaul

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    The salvation of those outside the Church
    « Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 11:06:21 AM »
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  • I would say, that he has almost everyone who is outside of the Church, on the salvation bus, headed for Heaven.
    That is to say, that there is an excuse for just about everyone, so that they are dispensed from their obligations to God and His grace.
    Oh! what a happy world...............

    Offline MyrnaM

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    The salvation of those outside the Church
    « Reply #3 on: July 28, 2014, 11:14:04 AM »
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  • Just in case you missed a few more places to study up on!

    Catechisms that teach Baptism of Desire


    Quote:
    1. A Catechism for Inquirers by Rev. Joseph I. Malloy, C.S.P.
    Reference page 28.
    New York: Paulist Press, 1927.
    Permissu Superiorum: Joseph McSorely, C.S.P., Superior General.
    Nihil Obstat: Arthur J. Scalan, S.T.D., Censor Librorum.
    Imprimatur: Patrick Cardinal Hayes, Archbishop of New York.

    2. A Catholic Catechism for the Parochial Schools and Sunday Schools of the United States. By Rev. James Groenings, S.J., translated by the Very Rev. James Rockliff, S.J.
    Reference page 101.
    New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benziger Brothers, 1900.
    With the Approbation of the Most Rev. Archbishop of New York and of Religious Superiors.
    Nihil Obstat: Theodore Van Rossum, S.J., Censor Deputatus.
    Imprimatur: Michael Augustine, Archbishop of New York.

    3. A Complete Catechism of the Catholic Religion. Translated from the German of Rev. Joseph Deharbe, S.J., by the Rev. John Fander. Preceded by A Short History of Revealed Religion, from the Creation to the Present Time. 6th American Edition. Edited by the Rev. James J. Fox, D.D. and the Rev. Thomas McMillan, C.S.P.
    Reference page 257.
    New York: Schwartz, Kirwin & Fauss, 1912.
    Nihil Obstat: Very Rev. Edmund T. Shanahan, D.D., Censor Deputatus.
    Imprimatur: John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.

    4. A Catechism Moral and Controversial, Proper for such as are already advanced to some Knowledge of Christian Doctrine by Thomas Miles Burke, O.P.
    Reference page 87.
    Permissu Superiorum.
    Lisbon, 1752.

    5. A Catechism of Catholic Doctrine.
    Reference page 80.
    Dublin, 1951.
    Approved by the Archbishops and Bishops of Ireland.
    Imprimatur: Joannes Carolus, Archiepiscopus Dublinensis, Hiberniae Primas.

    6. A Catechism of Christian Doctrine Prescribed for Use in the Diocese of Victoria, 2nd Ed.
    Reference page 36.
    Imprimatur: Alexander MacDonald, Bishop of Victoria.
    From the Preface:
    The writer is indebted to the Archbishop of Toronto for much, if not all, of what is best in this book. It has been already done into Spanish, and is used in South America.
    Toronto: Madigan & Moylan, 1920.

    7. A Dogmatic Catechism. From the Italian of Frassinetti. Revised and Edited by the Oblate Fathers of St. Charles.
    Reference page 188.
    London: R. Washbourne, 1872.
    Recommended by Henry Edward, Archbishop of Westminster.

    8. An Advanced Catechism of Catholic Faith and Practice, Based Upon the Third Plenary Council Catechism, for Use in the Higher Grades of Catholic Schools. Complied by Rev. Thomas J. O’Brien, Inspector of Parochial Schools in the Diocese of Brooklyn.
    Reference page 82.
    Akron: D. H. McBride & Company, 1901.
    Nihil Obstat: Rev. M. G. Flannery, Censor Librorum
    Imprimatur: Ign. F. Horstmann, Bishop of Cleveland.

    9. An Explanation of the Baltimore Catechism of Christian Doctrine: For the Use of Sunday-School Teachers and Advanced Classes. By the Rev. Thomas L. Kinkead.
    Reference page 164.
    New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benziger Brothers, 1891.
    Received approbations from:
    His Eminence Cardinal Gibbons.
    Most Rev. M. A. Corrigan, D.D., Archbishop of New York.
    Most Rev. William Henry Elder, D.D., Archbishop of Cincinnati.
    Most Rev. Thomas L. Grace, D.D., Archbishop of Siunia.
    Most Rev. P.J. Ryan, D.D., Archbishop of Philadelphia.
    Most Rev. William J. Walsh, D.D., Archbishop OP Dublin, Primate of Ireland.
    Right Rev. D. M. Bradley. D.D., Bishop of Manchester.
    Right Rev. Thomas F. Brennan, D.D., Bishop of Dallas.
    Right Rev. M. F. Burke, D.D., Bishop of Cheyenne.
    Right Rev. L. De Goesbriand, D.D., Bishop of Burlington.
    Right Rev. John Foley, D.D., Bishop of Detroit.
    Right Rev. H. Gabriels, D.D., Bishop-elect of Ogdensburg.
    Right Rev. N. A. Gallagher, D.D., Bishop of Galveston.
    Right Rev. Leo Haid, O.S.B., D.D., Vicar Apostolic of North Carolina.
    Right Rev. John J. Hennessy, D.D., Bishop of Wichita.
    Right Rev. Junger, D.D., Bishop of Nesqually.
    Right Rev. John J. Keane, D.D., Rector of the Catholic University, Washington.
    Right Rev. W. G. McCloskey, D.D., Bishop of Louisville.
    Right Rev. James Mcgolrick, D.D., Bishop of Duluth.
    Right Rev. Camillus P. Maes, D.D., Bishop of Covington.
    Right Rev. C. E. McDonnell, D.D., Bishop-elect of Brooklyn.
    Right Rev. P. Manogue, D.D., Bishop of Sacramento.
    Right Rev. Tobias Mullen, D.D., Bishop of Eric.
    Right Rev. H. P. Northrop, D.D., Bishop of Charleston.
    Right Rev. Henry Joseph Richter. D.D., Bishop of Grand Rapids.
    Right Rev. S. V. Ryan, D.D., Bishop of Buffalo.
    Right Rev. L. Scanlan, D.D., Bishop of Salt Lake.

    10. Anecdotes and Examples Illustrating the Catholic Catechism. Selected and Arranged by Rev. Francis Spirago, Professor of Theology. Supplemented, Adapted to the Baltimore Catechism, and Edited by Rev. James J. Baxter, D.D.
    Reference page 166.
    New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benziger Brothers, 1904.
    Nihil Obstat: Remigius Lafort, S.T.L., Censor Librorum.
    Imprimatur: John M. Farley, D.D., Archbishop of New York.

    11. Biblical Treasury of the Catechism, 3rd Ed. Complied and Arranged by Rev. Thomas E. Cox.
    Reference page 182.
    New York: William H. Young & Company, 1900.
    Nihil Obstat: T. L. Spalding.
    Imprimatur: Patrick A. Feehan, D.D., Archbishop of Chicago.

    12. Catechism Made Easy, Being a Familiar Explanation of the Catechism of Christian Doctrine, Vol III. by Rev. Henry Gibson, Late Catholic Chaplain to the Kirkdale Gaoland Kirkdale Industrial Schools.
    Reference pages 15 and 38.
    London: R Washbourne, 1877.
    Nihil Obstat: Carolus Canonicus Teebay.
    Imprimatur: Bernardus, Episcupus Liverpolitanus.

    13. Catechism: Doctrinal, Moral, Historical, and Liturgical with Answers to the Objections Drawn from the Sciences Against Religion, Vol. III., 8th Ed. by the Rev. Patrick Power.
    Reference page 177.
    London: Burns and Oates, 1905.
    With Episcopal Approbation.

    14. Catechism of the Diocese of Paris. Translated from the French by M. J. Piercy.
    Reference page 221.
    London: Richardson and Son, 1850.
    Approbations:
    Haying carefully perused the following Translation of an excellent and copious Catechism, published by order of the late saintly Archbishop of Paris, we hesitate not to recommend the same to the English reader, as an elaborate and complete exposition of Catholic doctrine and practice; suitable, from its peculiar plan, as well for the elementary instruction of young persons, as for the edification and benefit of those of riper age.

    William, Bishop of Ariopolis, Vicar Apostolic of the Eastern District.
    George, Bishop of Tloa, Vicar Apostolic of the Lancashire District.
    Bishop Eton.
    William, Bishop of Samosata.
    Robert Hogarth, G.V.—Y. D.

    15. Catechism of the ''Summa Theologica" of Saint Thomas Aquinas for the Use of the Faithful. By R. P. Thomas Pègues, O.P., Master in Theology. Adapted from the French and done into English by Aelred Whitacre, O.P.
    Reference page 249.
    London: Burns Oates and Washbourne Limited, 1922.
    Received the approbation of Pope Benedict XV.

    16. The Catechumen: An Aid to the Intelligent Knowledge of the Catechism. By J. G. Wenham, Canon of Southwark, and Diocesan Inspector of Schools.
    Reference page 293.
    London: Burns and Oates, 1888.
    Nihil Obstat: Thomas Can. Lalor, Censor Deputatus.

    17. The Catechism Explained: An Exhaustive Exposition of the Christian Religion, With Special Reference to the Present State of Society and the Spirit of the Age. A Practical Manual for the Use of the Preacher, the Catechist, the Teacher, and the Family. Eighth Edition. From the Original of Rev. Francis Spirago, Professor of Theology. Edited by Rev. Richard F. Clarke, S.J.
    Reference page 580.
    New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benziger Brothers, 1899.

    18. The Catechism, or, Christian Doctrine, by Way of Question and Answer, Drawn Chiefly from the Express Word of God, and Other Pure Sources. 3rd Ed. by the Rev. Andrew Donlevy, LL.D.
    Reference page 229.
    Dublin: James Duffy, 1848.
    Approbations:
    I do hereby testify to have attentively read and examined the Irish and English Catechism, compiled by M. Andrew Donlevy, Director of the Irish Community at Paris, which, in all points, is very conformable to both Scripture and Tradition, and very useful to all those who are charged with the instruction of the Faithful in the kingdom of Ireland, as clearly containing the Articles of Faith and Purity of Christian Morality. At Paris, the eighteenth of April, 1741.
    Michael O’Gara, Archbishop of Tuam.
    Similar Approbations were given at the same time by—
    James Gallagher, Bishop of Kildare.
    Patrick Macdonogh, Bishop of Killaloe.
    F. B. Kelly, O.S.F., Doctor of Sorbonne.
    Patrick Corr, Doctor of Sorbonne and Provisor of the Irish College.
    Mathew Mackenna, Doctor of Sorbonne and Provisor of the Irish College.
    Richard Hennessy, Licentiate of Sorbonne.
    F. J. Duany, O.E.S.A., Doctor of Sorbonne.
    Francis Devereux, Principal of the Irish College.

    19. The Catechism of Rodez Explained in Form of Sermons: A Work Equally Useful to the Clergy, Religious Communities, and Faithful. By the Abbe Luche.
    Reference page 395.
    St. Louis: B. Herder, 1898.
    Recommended by Rt. Rev. Ign. F. Horstmann, D.D., Bishop of Cleveland.
    Received the approbation of Louis-August, Bishop of Rodez.

    20. The Catechism in Examples by the Rev. D. Chisholm, Vol. IV. 3rd Ed.
    Reference page 59.
    London: Burns Oates & Washbourne LTD., 1918.
    Nihil Obstat: Franciscus M. Wyndham, Censor Deputatus.
    Imprimatur: Gulielmus, Episcopus Arindelensis, Vicarius Generalis.
    From the preface to the Second Edition:

    The unprecedented success which attended the publication of the First Edition of " The Catechism in Examples," and the demand which is now being constantly made for the book, has induced the author to undertake the publication of an entirely new edition, in which, while adhering to the original plan, he has not only thoroughly revised, but also considerably developed, the contents of the work.
    The book in its first form found its way literally into every part of the world, and demands for a reissue have recently reached the author from almost every country in the Continent of Europe, as well as from America, Australia, Africa, North and South; Ireland especially has been most zealous in its propagation in the past, and in present demands for its reappearance.
    His late Holiness, Leo XIII., not only gave the book his special approbation and blessing, when brought to his notice by two Archbishops, but asked the author to furnish a copy of it for the Papal Library (see Tablet, February 25, 1888, p. 300). Many members of the Hierarchy have also given it their approbation and commendation, and the teaching Orders of the Church, as well as the clergy in charge of schools, have distributed it in profusion among the prizes they gave to the children under their care; and in many a Catholic home it is the favourite book for pious reading in the family.

    21. The Catechism of the Ecclesiastical Provinces of Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa.
    Reference page 30.
    Quebec: Printing Establishment of A. Cote & Co., 1888.
    Approved by the Archbishops and Bishops of those Provinces and Published at Their Order.
    Imprimatur: E. A. Card. Taschereau, Archpus Quebecen.

    22. The Catechism of Saint Pius X.
    Reference page 52.
    Approved of by Pope St. Pius X.

    23. Teacher’s Handbook to the Catechism: A Practical Explanation of Catholic Doctrine for School and Pulpit. With Special Regard and Minute Directions for the Catechizing of Children, Vol. III. by the Rev. A. Urban.
    Reference page 35.
    New York: Joseph H. Wagner, 1904.
    Nihil Obstat: Remigius Lafort, S.T.L., Censor Librorum
    Imprimatur: Joannes M. Farley, D.D., Archiepiscopus.

    24. The Douay Catechism of 1649: An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine. With Proofs of Scripture on Points Controverted by Way of Question and Answer. By Henry Tuberville, D.D.
    Reference page 80.
    New York: John P. Kennedy, 1833.
    Approved and Recommended for His Diocese, by the Right Rev. Benedict, Bishop of Boston.

    25. The Poor Man's Catechism; or, the Christian Doctrine Explained with Short Admonitions. By John Mannock, O.S.B.
    Reference page 156.
    Dublin: Richard Coyne, 1825.

    26. The Real Principles of Catholics; Or, a Catechism by Way of General Instruction Explaining the Principle Points of the Doctrine & Ceremonies of the Catholic Church, 4th Ed. by the Right Rev. Dr. Hornihold, titular Bishop of Phiomelia and Vicar Apostolic of the Midland District, England.
    Reference page 211.
    Dublin: Richard Coyne, 1821.
    Approbations:
    The following Approbations will it is trusted appear decisive as to the Merits of this Work.
    We approve highly of Doctor Hornihold’s book, “The Real Principles of Catholics, &c.” and we recommend it highly for perusal to Roman Catholics of this Archdiocese.
    Thomas Troy, D.D. &c.
    Daniel Murray, D.D.
    M. H. Hamill, D.D.

    27. A Full Course of Instructions for the Use of Catechists; Being An Explanation of the Catechism Entitled "An Abridgment Of Christian Doctrine." By the Rev. John Perry.
    Reference page 271.
    New York: D. & J. Sadlier & Co., 1860.
    Approbations:
    Approbation of the Most Rev. John Hughes, D.D., Archbishop of New York:
    The publication of “Perry's Instructions on the Catechism,” by Messrs. Sadlier & Co., has my entire approval.
    Recommendation of the Right Rev. Bishop Bayley, Bishop of Newark:
    I am glad to hear that you intend to republish "Perry's Instructions on the Catechism." It is an excellent little book. As a manual for catechists, or as a book of instruction, developing and explaining the Catechism, it is the best work of the sort I am acquainted with.
    Approbation of the English Edition by the Right Rev, Dr. Wareing Bishop of Ariopolis, Vicar Apostolic of the Eastern District:
    Having attentively perused the work of the Rev. John Perry…I have great pleasure in recommending the same, as an orthodox and useful exposition of Catholic doctrine, and well calculated to assist as well those who seek for instruction as those who are employed in giving catechetical discourses.

    28. Dogmatic and Scriptural Foundation for Catechists: Notes on Baltimore Catechism No. 3 by Rev. Francis J. Connell, C.SS.R., S.T.D., LL.D, L.H.D.
    Reference page 48.
    New Jersey: Confraternity Publications, 1955.
    Imprimi Potest: Very Rev. James Connolly, C.SS.R., Provincial of the Baltimore Province of  the Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer.
    Nihil Obstat: Bede Babo, O.S.B., Censor librorum.
    Imprimatur:  James A. Mcnulty, Bishop of Paterson.

    29. The Baltimore Catechism No. 3 Prepared and Enjoined by Order of the Third Plenary Council of Baltimore (In Accordance with the New Canon Law).
    Reference page 53.
    New York, Boston, Cincinnati, Chicago, San Francisco: Benziger Brothers, 1885.
    Approbation from James Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, Apostolic Delegate:
    The Catechism ordered by the Third Plenary Council of Baltimore, having been diligently compiled and examined, is hereby approved.
    Imprimatur: John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York.
    Nihil Obstat: Rev. Remigius Lafort, S.T.L., Censor Librorum.
    Imprimatur: Michael Augustine, Archbishop of New York.
    Nihil Obstat: Arthur J. Scanlan, S.T.D., Censor Librorum.
    Imprimatur: Patrick J. Hayes, D.D., Archbishop of New York.

    30. The Catechism of the Council of Trent.
    Reference page 159.
    Ordered by the Council of Trent
    Edited by St. Charles Borromeo and approved of by St. Pope Pius V.
    Approbations for the Catechism of the Council of Trent taken from the book, A Parochial Course of Doctrinal Instructions for All Sundays and Holydays of the Year Based on the Teachings of the Catechism of the Council of Trent and Harmonized with the Gospels and Epistles of the Sundays and Feasts, Vol I. Prepared and Arranged by the Rev. Charles J. Callan, O.P., and the Rev. John A. McHugh, O.P. Professors in the Theological Faculty of Maryknoll Seminary, Ossining N. Y. With an Introduction by the Most Rev. Patrick Hayes, D.D., Archbishop of New York:

    In April, 1545, only a few months after the opening of the Council of Trent, it was decided by the Bishops and theologians of that illustrious assembly that an official book should be prepared for the guidance of pastors and all those charged with preaching and with the instruction of the faithful. It was plain that an explanation of the truths of revelation was always necessary; but at that time, more than ever in preceding ages, it seemed imperative that the faithful should be thoroughly instructed in all the doctrines of faith, because the so-called Reformers had their false teachers and false prophets everywhere abroad, spreading their pernicious errors and endeavoring by all means in their power to turn souls from the way of truth. The need of a complete, popular, and authoritative manual was further heightened by the lack in many of the pre-Reformation clergy of a systematic knowledge and method of explaining the truths of faith, and a consequent neglect of instruction and lack of religious knowledge on the part of the faithful.

    For some years the Council was occupied with other matters which demanded more immediate attention; but in February, 1562, after having defined and re-approved all the leading doctrines and teachings of the Church, the Fathers of the Council resolved that an official Catechism should be written which would treat, in a manner suited for parochial use, all those truths of Christian doctrine with which the faithful ought to be familiar, and upon which they are supposed to be instructed in particular on all Sundays and Feasts of obligation. Furthermore, it was the wish of the Fathers and authors of this great work, and of the Sovereign Pontiffs and Councils that subsequently approved it, that its contents should be so treated as to harmonize with the Gospels and Epistles of the Sundays and Feasts throughout the year. Thus the faithful, while being kept ever in touch with the person and life-giving words of Christ, would at the same time be constantly and thoroughly instructed in all the principal doctrines of that revelation which the Saviour has given to the world for man's salvation.

    After several years of careful labor and numerous revisions, on the part of many Bishops and eminent theologians, the Catechism was brought to completion and issued for the use of parish priests by command of Pope Pius V, toward the end of the year 1566. Translations into the vernacular of every nation were ordered by the Council. No such complete and practical summary of Christian doctrine had appeared since the days of the Apostles. Bishops at once recommended it everywhere and urged their priests so constantly to use and study it for their preaching that its whole contents would at length be committed to memory. It was repeatedly recommended by Pope St. Pius V., and in five Councils held at Milan under St. Charles Borromeo it received the highest praise and commendation. Similar eulogy and commendation were given it by Gregory XIII, the successor of Pius V, by Clement XIII, and in our own times by Leo XIII and Pius X. In short, from the time of its publication down to the present time many Pontiffs and Bishops, and a great number of provincial and diocesan synods in various countries, have vied with one another in celebrating the praises of the Catechism of Trent, and in commanding its use. A few of many testimonies may be useful here.

    Speaking of the Catechism, Cardinal Valerius, the friend of St. Charles Borromeo, wrote: “This work contains all that is needful for the instruction of the faithful; and its matter is given with such order, clearness, and majesty that through it we seem to hear the Church herself, taught by the Holy Ghost, speaking to us. ... It was composed by order of the Fathers of Trent through the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and was edited by order of the Vicar of Christ.”

    In an Encyclical Letter to the Bishops and clergy of France, of Sept. 8, 1889, Pope Leo XIII recommended two books which all Seminarians should possess, and constantly read and study, namely, the Summa of St. Thomas and the Roman Catechism. Regarding the latter he said: “This work is remarkable at once for the richness and exactness of its doctrine, and for the elegance of its style; it is a precious summary of all theology, both dogmatic and moral. He who understands it well, will have always at his service those aids by which a priest is enabled to preach with fruit, to acquit himself worthily of the important ministry of the confessional and of the direction of souls, and will be in a position to refute the objections of unbelievers.”

    Salmanticenses, the great Carmelite commentators on St. Thomas, paid the following high tribute to the Catechism: “The authority of this Catechism has always been of the greatest in the Church, because it was composed by the command of the Council of Trent, because its authors were men of highest learning, and because it was approved after the severest scrutiny by popes Pius V and Gregory XIII, and has been recommended in nearly all the Councils that have been held since the Council of Trent.”

    Antonio Possevinus, an illustrious Jesuit, and the professor of St. Francis de Sales, said: “The Catechism of the Council of Trent was inspired by the Holy Ghost.”

    In his immortal Apologia Cardinal Newman writes: “The Catechism of the Council of Trent was drawn up for the express purpose of providing preachers with subjects for their sermons; and, as my whole work has been a defence of myself, I may here say that I rarely preach a sermon but I go to this beautiful and complete Catechism to get both my matter and my doctrine.”

    “Its merits,” says Dr. Donovan, who first translated the Catechism into English, “have been recognized by the universal Church. The first rank which has been awarded the ‘Imitation’ among spiritual books, has been unanimously given to the Roman Catechism as a compendium of Catholic theology. It was the result of the aggregate labors of the most distinguished of the Fathers of Trent, . . . and is therefore stamped with the impress of superior worth.”

    Dr. John Hagan, Vice-Rector of the Irish College in Rome, says: “The Roman Catechism is a work of exceptional authority. At the very least it has the same authority as a dogmatic Encyclical, it is an authoritative exposition of Catholic doctrine given forth, and guaranteed to be orthodox by the Catholic Church and her supreme head on earth. The compilation of it was the work of various individuals; but the result of their combined labors was accepted by the Church as a precious abridgment of dogmatic and moral theology. Official docuмents have occasionally been issued by Popes to explain certain points of Catholic teaching to individuals, or to local Christian communities; whereas the Roman Catechism comprises practically the whole body of Christian doctrine, and is addressed to the whole Church. Its teaching is not infallible; but it holds a place between approved catechisms and what is de fide.”

    31. Divine Grace: A Series of Instructions Arranged According to the Baltimore Catechism: An Aid to Teachers and Preachers. Edited by Rev. Edmund J. Wirth, Ph.D., D.D., Professor at St. Bernard's Seminary, Rochester, N.Y.
    Reference page 91.
    New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benziger Brothers, 1903.
    Nihil Obstat: Remigius Lafort, Censor Librorum.
    Imprimatur: JNO. M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.

    32. Familiar Explanation of Christian Doctrine, Adapted for the Family and More Advanced Students in Catholic Schools and Colleges, No. III. By Fr. Michael Müller, C.S.S.R.
    Reference page 295.
    New York: Catholic Publication Society, 1875.
    Approbations:
    Nihil Obstat: Joseph Helmpraecht, C.SS.R.
    Imprimatur: J. Roosevelt Bayley, Archiep. Baltimorensis.

    33. Instructions on the Doctrines, Duties, and Resources of the Catholic Religion. Translated from La Doctrine Chrétienne par Lhomond. 2nd American, from the 8th English Ed. by the Rev. James Appleton.
    Reference page 217.
    Philadelphia: Michael Kelly, 1841.
    Approbations:
    We approve of the republication of the “Instructions on the Doctrines, Duties, and Resources, of the Catholic Religion, translated from the French of Lhomond, by the Rev. James Appleton.” Given under our hand, at Philadelphia, this 3rd day of May, 1841.
    Francis Patrick Kenrick, Bp. Arath and Coadj. of Bp. of Philadelphia.

    34. Works of the Right Rev. Bishop Hay of Edinburgh in Five Volumes, Vol. V: The Pious Christian. A new edition edited under the supervision of the Right Rev. Bishop Strain.
    Reference page 87.
    Edinburgh: William Blackwood and Sons, 1871.

    35. The Converts Catechism of Christian Doctrine by Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R.
    Reference page 70.
    B. Herder Book Co., 1930.
    Approbations:
    Imprimi Potest: Francis F. Fagan, C.SS.R., Provincial.
    Nihil Obstat: M. J. Bresnahan, Censor Librorum.
    Imprimatur: Joannes J. Glennon, S.T.D., Archiepiscopus.

    36. A Catechisme; Or, Christian Doctrine by Lawrence Vaux, B.D., Canon Regular and Sub-prior of St. Martin's Monastery, Louvain, Sometime Warden of the Collegiate Church, Manchester. Reprinted from an Edition of 1583.
    Reference page 53. Manchester: Charles E. Simms, 1885.

    37. Doctrinal and Scriptural Catechism; Or, Instructions on the Principal Truths of the Christian Religion. By Rev. P. Collot, Doctor of the Sorbonne. Translated from the French by Mrs. J. Sadlier.
    Reference page 154.
    New York: D. & J. Sadlier & Co., 1862.
    With the approbation of the Most Rev. John Hughes, D.D., Archbishop of New York.

    38. The Catholic Christian Instructed in the Sacraments, Sacrifice, Ceremonies, and Observances of the Church, by Way of Question and Answer. By the Rt. Rev. Dr. Challoner.
    Reference page 33.
    Baltimore: John Murphy & Co, 1852.

    39. Historical Catechism; Containing a Summary of Sacred History and Christian Doctrine. By Monsieur Fleury, Abbot of Loc-Deiu, late Sub-preceptor to the King of Spain, the Duke of Burgundy, and the Duke of Berry, 5th Ed.
    Reference page 210.
    Dublin: Richard Coyne, 1834.

    40. The Catechism of the Christian Religion; Being, with Some Small Changes, a Compendium of the Catechism of Montpellier, in which, by the Light of Scripture and Tradition, are Explained the History, Dogmas, Morality, Sacraments, Prayers, Ceremonies and Usages of the Church of Christ. By Rev. Stephen Keenan.
    Reference page 287.
    Boston: Patrick Donohoe, 1852.
    Published with the approval of the Rt. Rev. John B. Fitzgerald, Bishop of Boston.

    41. Catechism of Perseverance: An Historical, Doctrinal, Moral and Liturgical Exposition of the Catholic Religion, translated from the French of Abbé Gaume by the Rev. F. B. Jamison. Fiftieth edition, revised and enlarged.
    Reference page 209.
    Boston: Thomas B. Noonan & Co, 1850.
    Approbations:
    Published with the approbation of the Most Rev. Archbishop of Baltimore.
    We cheerfully recommend to the patronage of the Catholic community the Catechism of Perseverance, translated from the “Petit Catechisme de Perseverance” of the Abbe Gaume, as a work well calculated to impart solid historical, liturgical, moral, and doctrinal instruction in an agreeable format, and being particularly well suited for the purpose of higher religious instruction in Catholic schools and academies.
    Martin J., Bishop of Louisville.
    Michael, Bishop of Mobile.
    Anthony, Bishop of New Orleans.
    John, Bishop of Galveston.

    42. A Manual of the Catholic Religion for Catechists, Teachers and Self-Instruction, 6th Ed. By the Rev. F. X. Weninger, D.D., S.J.
    Reference page 248.
    Cincinnati: John P. Walsh, 1867.
    Approbations:
    I have read and examined the “Manual of the Catholic Doctrine,” by Rev. F. X. Weninger, S.J., with a great deal of pleasure and delight. I know of no work more clear and explicit, or that better meets the exigencies of the times than this; hence, I would exceedingly like to see it translated into English, and freely circulated within the diocese.
    John Henry Luers, Bishop of Fort Wayne.
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Cantarella

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    The salvation of those outside the Church
    « Reply #4 on: July 28, 2014, 11:23:40 AM »
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  • The Baptism of Desire as fallible Church teaching has nothing to do with the salvation of non-Catholics. That is a modernist invention.

    The Baptism of Desire is quite irrelevant to EENS.

    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Stubborn

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    The salvation of those outside the Church
    « Reply #5 on: July 28, 2014, 11:26:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Just in case you missed a few more places to study up on!

    Catechisms that teach Baptism of Desire


    Yes, yes, yes Myrna, just blind yourself completely as always.  

    Because salvation outside the Church via NSAA is in text books all over the world only means the entire world is reading the same error - which helps send most souls, including Catholics, into hell.

    Perhaps if the dogma was preached to mean what it says, there would be less souls going to hell. Can you at least agree with that?



    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline MyrnaM

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    The salvation of those outside the Church
    « Reply #6 on: July 28, 2014, 11:42:17 AM »
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  • Quote

    Article in question:
    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=26486&f=16&min=0&num=5
       



    I posted the below article in a readable format in order for Catholics here on CI  to enumerate the errors within this article from CMRI, written by Fr. Noel Barbara.
    So I stopped pointing out the lies and falsehoods after only the first few lies in the article (in blue) and will leave the rest for other the Catholics here on CI to post the truth against the lies in the article from Fr. Noel Barbara.


    Yes, I did notice how you cleverly left out the quotes from the True Popes and proper authority.  










    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Stubborn

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    « Reply #7 on: July 28, 2014, 11:47:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Quote

    Article in question:
    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=26486&f=16&min=0&num=5
       



    I posted the below article in a readable format in order for Catholics here on CI  to enumerate the errors within this article from CMRI, written by Fr. Noel Barbara.
    So I stopped pointing out the lies and falsehoods after only the first few lies in the article (in blue) and will leave the rest for other the Catholics here on CI to post the truth against the lies in the article from Fr. Noel Barbara.


    Yes, I did notice how you cleverly left out the quotes from the True Popes and proper authority.  


    Read all the way to the bottom - I left the footnotes in.

    Regardless, as shown (in blue) he starts off with a lie. Even you should be able to see through the rest of that heretical excuse for an article.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline MyrnaM

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    The salvation of those outside the Church
    « Reply #8 on: July 28, 2014, 11:48:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    Just in case you missed a few more places to study up on!

    Catechisms that teach Baptism of Desire


    Yes, yes, yes Myrna, just blind yourself completely as always.  

    Because salvation outside the Church via NSAA is in text books all over the world only means the entire world is reading the same error - which helps send most souls, including Catholics, into hell.

    Perhaps if the dogma was preached to mean what it says, there would be less souls going to hell. Can you at least agree with that?





    So, now who is picking and choosing, what teachings to believe and what to ignore.  

    You do exactly what you accuse others of doing.

    Well the bottom line is, I can't force you or any one to believe the catechism, not even God can do that, you have a free will.

    I also have to clean my house ...  It's Mon.  things get out of place here on the weekends.  

     :smash-pc: :smash-pc: :smash-pc:

    Take care you are always in my prayers as everyone on these forums are each day.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Stubborn

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    « Reply #9 on: July 28, 2014, 11:49:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Quote from: Stubborn
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    Just in case you missed a few more places to study up on!

    Catechisms that teach Baptism of Desire


    Yes, yes, yes Myrna, just blind yourself completely as always.  

    Because salvation outside the Church via NSAA is in text books all over the world only means the entire world is reading the same error - which helps send most souls, including Catholics, into hell.

    Perhaps if the dogma was preached to mean what it says, there would be less souls going to hell. Can you at least agree with that?





    So, now who is picking and choosing, what teachings to believe and what to ignore.  

    You do exactly what you accuse others of doing.

    Well the bottom line is, I can't force you or any one to believe the catechism, not even God can do that, you have a free will.

    I also have to clean my house ...  

     :smash-pc: :smash-pc: :smash-pc:

    Take care you are always in my prayers as everyone on these forums are each day.  



    Perhaps if the dogma was preached to mean what it says, there would be less souls going to hell. Can you at least agree with that?

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline MyrnaM

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    The salvation of those outside the Church
    « Reply #10 on: July 28, 2014, 11:52:25 AM »
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  • If by that you mean do I believe everyone has Baptism of Desire, I believe the road to heaven is narrow, but I also have lots and lots of hope for those I pray for.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline Ladislaus

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    The salvation of those outside the Church
    « Reply #11 on: July 28, 2014, 12:27:11 PM »
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  • Again, there is a Catholic way of understanding a BoD.  99% of the proponents of BoD, however, embrace one heresy or another in explaining BoD.  And they don't really believe in BoD but in Faith of Desire.

    Offline Stubborn

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    « Reply #12 on: July 28, 2014, 01:24:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    If by that you mean do I believe everyone has Baptism of Desire, I believe the road to heaven is narrow, but I also have lots and lots of hope for those I pray for.  


    This is not a trick question:

    Perhaps if the dogma was preached to mean what it says, there would be less souls going to hell. Can you at least agree with that?
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

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    The salvation of those outside the Church
    « Reply #13 on: July 28, 2014, 05:22:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: CMRI's Fr. Noel Barbara

         Whosoever wishes to be faithful to the Lord should
    "absolutely reject the heretical supposition that dogmas
    evolve, as a result of which their meaning can change and
    become different from that which the Church first imparted to
    them" ("Antimodernist Oath", Denzinger 2145,4).

    Such being the case, the Church today, as she has always
    done, clearly teaches that outside of her, no one can be saved.


    Ok, *this* is Church teaching right there! Fr. Noel Barbara said the whole truth right there!



    Quote from: CMRI's Fr. Noel Barbara

    Emphasis in original
    In the face of this, must one believe that everyone, without exception, who does not OFFICIALLY belong to the Church by means of the reception of Baptism and the public profession of the Catholic faith, is damned?  Not at all.


    The answer is of course, "yes". But this is where the deception starts. It begins with the word "OFFICIALLY", you'll find that the deception which begins here, will be interwoven throughout the entire article.

    Notice also how he just gets done quoting the Oath against Modernism to show that dogma means what it says, and then he reinforces that with his enunciation which immediately followed it, now he adds his own exception with the word "OFFICIALLY".

    He takes it upon himself to qualify the de fide teaching he just got done quoting, with something which *by his own enunciation* just a sentence earlier, is nonexistent. Namely, he qualifies it with the word: "OFFICIALLY".

    Additionally, by his words "Not at all", he explicitly contradicts both his own enunciation and his quote from the oath against modernism.  

    At this point, he may as well have posted this:

    "In the face of this, one must believe that everyone, without exception, who does not OFFICIALLY belong to the Church by means of the reception of Baptism and the public profession of the Catholic faith, belongs UNOFFICIALLY." because before he is done, THAT is the message he ends up transmitting, that is the way his message is understood by the masses, and he did it in only a sentence or two immediately after speaking the truth.


    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline JPaul

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    « Reply #14 on: July 28, 2014, 05:49:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    The Baptism of Desire as fallible Church teaching has nothing to do with the salvation of non-Catholics. That is a modernist invention.

    The Baptism of Desire is quite irrelevant to EENS.



    But, as has been clearly demonstrated, its apostles are compelled to spam a thread at the mention of it.