Author Topic: THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY (Read 26330 times)

CM · « **Reply #70 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:05:07 AM »

Quote from: LoT

When it rains the driveway gets wet.

The driveway is wet so it must have rained.

Did you look at the road and the other driveways before coming to that conclusion?

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Pope Benedict's words are not objectively heretical, unless you want to condemn every Saint and Pope listed in this article as a heretic also...

Stevus, really you need to pay much better attention to the issues. You didn't even read the article you posted, did you? How many Saints does it list?

POPE Leo XIII calls her Co-Redemptrix, which does not contradict the decree of Trent, which states that Jesus Christ ALONE is our redeemer (as I have relayed in my blog).

POPE Pius X states that she merits for us de congruo (merit gratuitously given) what Christ HAD ALREADY merited de condigno (merit owed in strict justice for the work done). This is exactly what I say.

The remaining 'popes' I don't even care what they said, because as you know I have written them off as antipopes, WITHOUT PREJUDICE TO BoD. Even if I believed in the BoD heresy, I would still reject Benedict XV as a heretic.

LoT, the prefix "co" also means "subordinate". The Blessed Virgin was subordinate to Christ in his work of redemption, and played a completely different role.

Quote from: LoT

She redeemed the world with Christ

I'm afraid that your explanation is heretical and contrary to the following decree:

Quote from: Pope Pius IV, at the Council of Trent, Session 25, On Invocation, Veneration and Relics of Saints, and on Sacred Images, infallibly

...Jesus Christ our Lord, who alone is our Redeemer...

To say that Mary is our redeemer in any way is heretical, even if it is with and subordinated to Christ. It is not heretical to say that she merits (de congruo) grace and salvation for us, nor is it heretical to say that she was co-Redemptrix, provided we do not believe this means she performed the same task, but that she was subordinate to God in His task, while playing an altogether different role.

She was a co-worker with a different job.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #71 on:** October 07, 2009, 01:20:21 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Stevus, really you need to pay much better attention to the issues. You didn't even read the article you posted, did you? How many Saints does it list?

Ever heard of Saint Iraneus or Saint Pius X? And I'm the one who didn't read the article?

I've just linked to a website that demonstrates Saints and Popes have believed the same "heresy" you accuse the current Pope of. They are all saying the same thing.

CM · « **Reply #72 on:** October 07, 2009, 02:45:37 PM »

I never said I read the article. I did a keyword search for Saints, and found none. But I see that St. Irenaeus is mentioned (saint was not before his name".

I'd like to study his writings on the matter before I comment further.

CM · « **Reply #73 on:** October 07, 2009, 02:52:25 PM »

Hardly surprising that I cannot find any writings confirming that St. Irenaeus ever said any such things.

If you know of something please direct me to it, otherwise, I don't buy it for a moment.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #74 on:** October 07, 2009, 05:37:13 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Quote from: LoT
When it rains the driveway gets wet.

The driveway is wet so it must have rained.

Did you look at the road and the other driveways before coming to that conclusion?

Quote from: stevusmagnus
Pope Benedict's words are not objectively heretical, unless you want to condemn every Saint and Pope listed in this article as a heretic also...

Stevus, really you need to pay much better attention to the issues. You didn't even read the article you posted, did you? How many Saints does it list?

POPE Leo XIII calls her Co-Redemptrix, which does not contradict the decree of Trent, which states that Jesus Christ ALONE is our redeemer (as I have relayed in my blog).

POPE Pius X states that she merits for us de congruo (merit gratuitously given) what Christ HAD ALREADY merited de condigno (merit owed in strict justice for the work done). This is exactly what I say.

The remaining 'popes' I don't even care what they said, because as you know I have written them off as antipopes, WITHOUT PREJUDICE TO BoD. Even if I believed in the BoD heresy, I would still reject Benedict XV as a heretic.

LoT, the prefix "co" also means "subordinate". The Blessed Virgin was subordinate to Christ in his work of redemption, and played a completely different role.

Quote from: LoT
She redeemed the world with Christ

I'm afraid that your explanation is heretical and contrary to the following decree:

Quote from: Pope Pius IV, at the Council of Trent, Session 25, On Invocation, Veneration and Relics of Saints, and on Sacred Images, infallibly
...Jesus Christ our Lord, who alone is our Redeemer...

To say that Mary is our redeemer in any way is heretical, even if it is with and subordinated to Christ. It is not heretical to say that she merits (de congruo) grace and salvation for us, nor is it heretical to say that she was co-Redemptrix, provided we do not believe this means she performed the same task, but that she was subordinate to God in His task, while playing an altogether different role.

She was a co-worker with a different job.

So you admit she is a co-redemtrix. Isn't that all Benedict XV said. She didn't perform the same task as if she did it instead of Him. She did it with him in a secondary and subordinate way and would not have been able to help Him in this task if He did not Will or allow her to do so. He certainly did not need her help but willed to need her help. I am not sure we really disagree here but I am also highly doubtful that Benedict XV disagreed either.