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Author Topic: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy  (Read 33061 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2021, 08:55:26 AM »
Quote from: Papa Pius V on February 04, 2021, 07:44:20 AM
You are by logical necessity engaging in interpretation because there is a clear difference of opinion on how to understand these quotes from Trent.
Please point out where in my posts I even alluded to interpreting Trent other than pointing out that the Feeneyites reject the magisterial authority that interpreted Trent? Pure strawman.
No, we cannot agree on this because again you and I have no authority.
No, I quoted Trent word for word. Words have meaning. Trent's words mean what they say or they mean nothing at all.

Trent says that it is a condemned proposition to say that without the sacraments or without the desire for the sacraments that men obtain the grace of justification. Those are Trent's words, not mine.

Can men obtain justification without the sacraments? Without the desire for the sacraments? If you answer yes, then per Trent, you are anathema. Plain and simple - nothing complicated, nothing to interpret here.

If you answer no, you are simply wrong. Trent does not say "with" the desire, Trent says "without" the desire. IOW, Trent purposely offers no definite conclusion or answer in the matter.

Thank about it and get back with me. 





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Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2021, 09:21:07 AM »
Quote from: Papa Pius V on February 04, 2021, 09:02:08 AM
That's exactly what Protestants say about the Bible. Words have meaning that can be understood by perspicuity. You are a layman as am I. Have some humility of heart to accept what the Church has taught otherwise you are no different than a garden variety protestant.
Again you are engaging in publishing an interpretation of Trent and thereby are excommunicated ipso facto. I highly recommend you stop for the benefit of your own spiritual well being.
No, protestants take their mindset to their Bible and they see in the various passages what they already believe, and what they do not believe, they do not see. This is what you are doing with Trent, I am trying to show you what Trent actually says - which according to you, is heresy because to you, it simply cannot mean exactly what it says.

Do not be confused, ambiguity and parable like communicating did not start until the decrees of the Second Vatican Council, prior to that the Church (at Trent) taught clearly, on purpose and always.  
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2021, 09:54:32 AM »
In your effort to deny infallible, apodictic Church teaching, you are beating the wind.

Faithful Catholics will always profess, with Trent, that which Trent condemns with anathema, namely, the three things below:
1) anyone that saith the sacraments are not necessary for salvation.
2) anyone that saith that without the sacraments men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification
3) anyone that saith that without the desire for the sacraments, men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification.

Per Trent, is it possible that men may obtain the grace of justification without the desire for the sacrament?

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2021, 10:15:34 AM »
Quote from: Papa Pius V on February 04, 2021, 09:56:47 AM
In your effort to retain your personal understanding of Trent, you have become no different than your brothers the Jansenists and Old Catholics.
Again I will not discuss Trent with you. I will only refer you to the Holy Church via the Papal Encyclicals, theologians, Doctors, and saints who have written on this issue post Trent.
Another BODer bites the dust, cannot even answer a simple question, even when given the infallible answers first. Weasels on the false claim of misinterpretation of clear, infallible teachings. You are the typical BODer. Sad actually.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2021, 10:37:43 AM »
Quote from: Papa Pius V on February 04, 2021, 10:19:31 AM
Another Feeneyite leaves Catholicism to make his own sect via his understanding.
All hail His Holiness Pope Stubborn I.

It's ironic that you call yourself "Papa" because it is YOU who are adopting the schismatic attitude by declaring those who don't believe in Baptism of Desire to be heretics.  We'd have several Church Fathers in that category of those who rejected Baptism of Desire.  

So you did a nice weasel shift from
1) declaring those who consider BoD heretical to be schismatics/heretics 
        TO
2) declaring those who do not believe in BoD (as a personal position) to be schismatics/heretics

I didn't entirely disagree with #1, but argued that Feeneyites (vs. Dimondites) do not fall into that category.

Now you've moved on to #2.  In point of fact, Papa, the Church has never condemned those who don't believe in BoD to be heretics.  So you're arrogating unto yourself the Church's prerogative to declare people heretics.  In other words, you're doing the same thing you accused those who fell under your condemnation of #1 to be doing.

So you shift and weasel around from one attack to another ... which I have always found to be prima facie evidence of being of bad will.
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