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Author Topic: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?  (Read 2022 times)

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Offline donkath

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Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2021, 03:37:04 AM »
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    • Correction:

    unchangeable/speculative
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    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
    « Reply #16 on: February 19, 2021, 04:56:42 AM »
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    • Dear Donkath, I agree with your basic point. What is important, after we learn the Faith, is to live the Faith. To pray and sacrifice for sinners to be converted, for non-Catholics to become Catholic, and for souls to be saved. We can and must hold to the basics or essentials of the Faith, as taught in any Catechism, and then strive to grow in grace, in holiness, in charity every day of our lives. 

    The issue of explicit-implicit faith may be important in theological discussions, like that between the SSPX and Rome. It is not very important for the average Catholic. The average Catholic only needs to know and believe that non-Catholics need to be brought to the Faith by prayer and evangelism and every available means.. We can and must exert all our efforts, and our prayers and sacrifices, to save souls. 

    My issue with the Dimonds is they mislead people, and sometimes lead souls outside the Church. If they were baptizing non-Christians or evangelizing non-Catholics to the Church and the Faith, who would argue with them? They believe almost everyone except themselves are heretics, and anathematize just about everybody. That leads imo to a schismatic attitude and a "Church of 2" mentality.

    God Bless.
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    Offline donkath

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    Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
    « Reply #17 on: February 19, 2021, 06:37:20 AM »
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    • Much appreciated.

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    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
    « Reply #18 on: February 19, 2021, 07:17:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: XavierSem on February 18, 2021, 09:58:06 PM
    What are you looking for, precisely? Do you want me to condemn Archbishop Lefebvre or Bishop Fellay? I'm not going to do that.

    No, we're asking you to have the integrity to simply disagree with them.  None of us has the authority to "condemn" anyone?
    YES OR NO.  Do you disagree with +Lefebvre and +Fellay on this issue?

    I know you tried some mental gymnastics about what +Fellay actually might have mean, but it's very clear what he meant.  So based on the obvious face-value meaning of what he said, do you disagree with +Fellay and +Lefebvre regarding the possibility of salvation for unconverted infidels?

    Your honest answer here could perhaps begin to establish you as someone who is intellectually honest, so don't let this opportunity for personal growth pass you by.

    If you continue to slither around this question, then there's no need for anyone to discuss these issues with you.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
    « Reply #19 on: February 19, 2021, 07:32:30 AM »
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    • I come to the end of a relatively short journey with XavierSem wherein I purposely refrained from debating the slightest details with him him, just probing to learn the big picture of his endless copy and pasting of haphazardly arranged misquotes, what others call spam. I did this because language, words, have no fixed meaning with people like him, for every word that comes out of their mouth means other than what the world understands it to mean. I speak both English and Spanish fluently, everyone has a native language, German, Italian, Hungarian, Polish..... The language of the Satan is lies. People like XavierSem are incapable of communicating in truth, because their language has no fixed meaning. Their language is like rat poison. Did you know that rat poison is 99% nutritious food? Nevertheless, the 1% will kill you just the same. One can't remove the 1% out of the nutritious food because it is interspersed in every molecule of the nutritious food. It is the same with people like XavierSem, their language is rat poison, their every word is poisoned by not having a fixed meaning, their every word does not mean what one thinks it does. So how do you talk or debate with such a person? You can't. There is no way. This is why it took so long for him to answer my simple question, which he still really has not answered, I had to answer it for him.

    Modernism is the synthesis of all heresies, the cesspool of all heresies, it is of the Father of Lies, and double speak is in it's every molecule. The very air of all the heresies of the "spirit" of Vatican, is double speak, words that do not mean what they have always meant, nothing is fixed, everything is floating in the air. The camouflage of those possessed by double speak is false humility, an appeal to peoples sentiments. One will see XavierSem appeal to people's sentiments whenever he is cornered to reveal what he really means. It is the same cloak worn by John Paul II and Benedict X16, both examples of double speak, false humility,  and rat poison.

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    Offline donkath

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    Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
    « Reply #20 on: February 19, 2021, 08:12:58 AM »
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    • I think people often lack confidence in putting forth their own opinions for fear they will be accused of denigrating someone else (in this case ABL/Fellay). They often put forth the undoubted opinions of recognised experts.   I believe Xaviersem thought he had answered the question, but in choosing indirect methods he has not made his own personal opinion clear.  
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    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline Nishant Xavier

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    Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
    « Reply #21 on: February 19, 2021, 08:16:52 AM »
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    • The "rat poison" is on your side, in your Dimondite denial of what Church Doctors call de fide dogmas. You end by committing mortal sin against the Faith and even objective heresy (denial of what is de fide is heresy) and leading people outside the Church, where there is no salvation. This is all that heretical Dimondite rigorism ever accomplishes. Not surprising from those who are open "Ecclesia-Vacantists", who hold that the entire Catholic and Apostolic Church has defected to heresy like the Dimonds do.

    These are your great lights. You will end up like them. Blind guides of the blind. My guides are the Popes and Doctors and Saints. One positive thing is you have not yet gone so far as Ibranyi in condemning them, although that's where Dimondism leads. But if you don't condemn them, you can't consistently condemn us who hold precisely to their teaching. Of course you are inconsistent as well, LT.

    Ladislaus, did you read what I said: "If Bishop Fellay did endorse salvation by implicit faith - and I'm not convinced he did based on what I quoted about what H.E. said on the Jҽωs - then I don't agree with H.E. on that point. If I could converse with His Excellency, I would respectfully point to St. Alphonsus' teaching. My view is Bishop Fellay would almost certainly agree with St. Alphonsus Liguori, if he doesn't already do so, when respectfully presented.

    I quoted numerous Popes, Saints, Doctors, Catechisms, Councils, Manuals and Theologians that teach exactly what I believe".

    I don't agree with anyone who teaches salvation by implicit faith. I agree with the Church Doctors who taught salvation by explicit faith.

    But I'm not convinced Bishop Fellay taught salvation by implicit faith. If someone believes H.E. did, why not email H.E. and ask him?t
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
    « Reply #22 on: February 19, 2021, 08:38:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: XavierSem on February 19, 2021, 08:16:52 AM
    I don't agree with anyone who teaches salvation by implicit faith. I agree with the Church Doctors who taught salvation by explicit faith.

    But I'm not convinced Bishop Fellay taught salvation by implicit faith. If someone believes H.E. did, why not email H.E. and ask him?t

    OK, good.  I'm pretty sure that implicit faith is exactly what +Fellay meant in that quote.  Both he and Archbishop Lefebvre seem to hold Karl Rahner's "Anonymous Christian" soteriology.  Most people don't know that Rahner held that these Anonymous Christians are saved BY JESUS CHRIST AND THE CHURCH even if they don't know it.  Rahner was actually criticized by the more rabid Modernists for maintaining that Jesus Christ remained necessary for salvation ... even if acting as some invisible instrumental cause.

    Both Archibishop Lefebvre and Bishop Fellay misfired badly on this issue.  Rahner bragged that the single greatest innovation of Vatican II was the increased "hope of salvation" for those outside the Church, and he's not wrong, as this ecclesiology is in fact what drives all of Vatican II.

    In claiming that these infidels "enter the Church," +Lefebvre agreed with V2 ecclesiology that the Church consists not only of Catholics but of all kinds of non-Catholics as well, resulting in this half-visible, half-invisible Frankenchurch ... totally contrary to Tridentine ecclesiology.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
    « Reply #23 on: February 19, 2021, 09:05:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: XavierSem on February 19, 2021, 08:16:52 AM
    I don't agree with anyone who teaches salvation by implicit faith. I agree with the Church Doctors who taught salvation by explicit faith.
    Translation to truth:


    Quote
    I XavierSem I don't agree with anyone who teaches salvation by implicit faith and I confess that those who die as infidels are lost, however, no one but God knows who the infidels are and who did not die with the Catholic Faith, not having received Baptism of Desire or Perfect Contrition in the last seconds when God appeared to them. Baptism of desire can save people in all religions who "only appear" to have died as non-Catholics.

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