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Author Topic: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?  (Read 3959 times)

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Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2021, 08:12:58 AM »
I think people often lack confidence in putting forth their own opinions for fear they will be accused of denigrating someone else (in this case ABL/Fellay). They often put forth the undoubted opinions of recognised experts.   I believe Xaviersem thought he had answered the question, but in choosing indirect methods he has not made his own personal opinion clear.  

Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2021, 08:16:52 AM »
The "rat poison" is on your side, in your Dimondite denial of what Church Doctors call de fide dogmas. You end by committing mortal sin against the Faith and even objective heresy (denial of what is de fide is heresy) and leading people outside the Church, where there is no salvation. This is all that heretical Dimondite rigorism ever accomplishes. Not surprising from those who are open "Ecclesia-Vacantists", who hold that the entire Catholic and Apostolic Church has defected to heresy like the Dimonds do.

These are your great lights. You will end up like them. Blind guides of the blind. My guides are the Popes and Doctors and Saints. One positive thing is you have not yet gone so far as Ibranyi in condemning them, although that's where Dimondism leads. But if you don't condemn them, you can't consistently condemn us who hold precisely to their teaching. Of course you are inconsistent as well, LT.

Ladislaus, did you read what I said: "If Bishop Fellay did endorse salvation by implicit faith - and I'm not convinced he did based on what I quoted about what H.E. said on the Jҽωs - then I don't agree with H.E. on that point. If I could converse with His Excellency, I would respectfully point to St. Alphonsus' teaching. My view is Bishop Fellay would almost certainly agree with St. Alphonsus Liguori, if he doesn't already do so, when respectfully presented.

I quoted numerous Popes, Saints, Doctors, Catechisms, Councils, Manuals and Theologians that teach exactly what I believe".

I don't agree with anyone who teaches salvation by implicit faith. I agree with the Church Doctors who taught salvation by explicit faith.

But I'm not convinced Bishop Fellay taught salvation by implicit faith. If someone believes H.E. did, why not email H.E. and ask him?t


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2021, 08:38:34 AM »
I don't agree with anyone who teaches salvation by implicit faith. I agree with the Church Doctors who taught salvation by explicit faith.

But I'm not convinced Bishop Fellay taught salvation by implicit faith. If someone believes H.E. did, why not email H.E. and ask him?t

OK, good.  I'm pretty sure that implicit faith is exactly what +Fellay meant in that quote.  Both he and Archbishop Lefebvre seem to hold Karl Rahner's "Anonymous Christian" soteriology.  Most people don't know that Rahner held that these Anonymous Christians are saved BY JESUS CHRIST AND THE CHURCH even if they don't know it.  Rahner was actually criticized by the more rabid Modernists for maintaining that Jesus Christ remained necessary for salvation ... even if acting as some invisible instrumental cause.

Both Archibishop Lefebvre and Bishop Fellay misfired badly on this issue.  Rahner bragged that the single greatest innovation of Vatican II was the increased "hope of salvation" for those outside the Church, and he's not wrong, as this ecclesiology is in fact what drives all of Vatican II.

In claiming that these infidels "enter the Church," +Lefebvre agreed with V2 ecclesiology that the Church consists not only of Catholics but of all kinds of non-Catholics as well, resulting in this half-visible, half-invisible Frankenchurch ... totally contrary to Tridentine ecclesiology.

Re: XavierSem - Will He Answer the Simple Question?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2021, 09:05:19 AM »
I don't agree with anyone who teaches salvation by implicit faith. I agree with the Church Doctors who taught salvation by explicit faith.
Translation to truth:


Quote
I XavierSem I don't agree with anyone who teaches salvation by implicit faith and I confess that those who die as infidels are lost, however, no one but God knows who the infidels are and who did not die with the Catholic Faith, not having received Baptism of Desire or Perfect Contrition in the last seconds when God appeared to them. Baptism of desire can save people in all religions who "only appear" to have died as non-Catholics.