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Author Topic: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy  (Read 33108 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2021, 03:11:37 AM »
St. Amrose, St. John Chrysostom, and St. Augustine are not heretics in any way, shape or form regardless of their personal belief on EENS.

What makes Feeneyites heretics however is their belief that the Church has definitely and magisterially taught explicit heresy via encyclicals, council, catechism and canon law. Moreover their belief that those who do not hold their interpretation of EENS are heretics and those who do not hold them to be heretics are also heretics makes the Feeneyites both schismatics and heretics.

You’ve been corrected on this slander against the Feeneyite position twice already.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2021, 05:12:50 AM »
Quote
Council of Trent:

"And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God."

-And-

"CANON IV.-If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous; and that, without them, or without the desire thereof, men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification;-though all (the sacraments) are not indeed necessary for every individual; let him be anathema."

If you agree with Trent, then you agree Trent's Canons are infallible. Using Trent for your answers, these will be your answers to the following questions:

Q) Are the sacraments necessary for salvation?
A) The sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Q) Can a man obtain justification without the sacraments?  
A) No, man cannot achieve justification without the sacraments.

Q) Can a man obtain justification with a desire for the sacraments?  
A) No, man cannot achieve justification without the desire for the sacraments.

Q) Where does Trent teach man can obtain salvation with a desire for the sacrament?
A) Trent does not teach man can obtain salvation with a desire for the sacrament.

In the above canons, The Church through Trent, teaches a) that the sacraments are necessary for salvation, and b) that justification is not achieved without either the sacrament or the desire for the sacrament.

All we can do, indeed, what we are in fact bound to do, is repeat Trent and say; the sacraments are necessary for salvation and that without the sacrament or the desire for the sacraments, man does not achieve justification. That's the way Trent left it, that's the way we must leave it.


If anyone has any explanation as to how the Church's "no justification without desire" was changed into "salvation through desire", I'm all ears.


Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2021, 07:19:10 AM »
You & I and Fr. Feeney and Fr. Wathen don't get to interpret Trent.
Pope Pius IV’s Bull Benedictus Deus (26 January 1564). The Bull, which confirms the decrees of the Council of Trent, imposes a latae sententiae (automatic) excommunication on anyone who, without the approval of the Holy See, presumes “to publish in any form any commentaries, glosses, annotations, scholia on, or any kind of interpretation whatsoever of the decrees of this council.”
I am not the one doing the interpreting here.

Trent clearly condemns with anathema whoever says the sacraments are not necessary for salvation - this is condemned in the quotes from Trent I posted, I did not interpret anything, I am repeating Trent.

Trent, in the quotes I posted, clearly condemns with anathema whoever says men obtain the grace of justification without the sacrament or without the desire thereof, I did not interpret anything, I am repeating Trent.

So Trent says without the desire, there is no justification. You say with the desire, there is salvation.

Again, I am not the one doing the interpreting here, you are - and doing a terrible job of it I might add.

Can we agree on this? If not, please point out exactly where I am [mis]interpreting Trent.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2021, 07:55:18 AM »
PiusV,
Fr Freeney was saying that the MODERNIST version of BOD was heretical, the same version you also agree isn’t catholic (ie Fr Feeney was fighting the pre-V2 Modernists in Boston, MA who were “teaching” that a non-catechumen, who doesn’t desire to enter the Church, can be saved).
.
The only thing Fr Feeney ever said about a catechumen who died before baptism is that he “didn’t know” where that soul went. And none of us does.  We only hope. 

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2021, 08:16:55 AM »
PiusV,
Fr Freeney was saying that the MODERNIST version of BOD was heretical, the same version you also agree isn’t catholic (ie Fr Feeney was fighting the pre-V2 Modernists in Boston, MA who were “teaching” that a non-catechumen, who doesn’t desire to enter the Church, can be saved).
.
The only thing Fr Feeney ever said about a catechumen who died before baptism is that he “didn’t know” where that soul went. And none of us does.  We only hope.

This has been explained to Papa here several times already, but he's of bad will and refuses to listen ... so he continues to slander Father Feeney.  He's attacking the Dimondite position that BoD is heretical, to which I have repeatedly objected.