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Author Topic: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy  (Read 33069 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Absurdities of The BODers
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2021, 04:46:44 PM »
It certainly is, Stubborn. St. Alphonsus said it was de fide. Numerous Popes said Catholics may safely repeat any doctrine St. Alphonsus taught in the Moral Theology work where he said this.
Yes, I know he is safe to quote anything in his Moral Theology. That the sacrament is necessary for salvation is a dogma, it was defined at Trent and therefore belongs with Dogmatic Theology, not Moral Theology. Yet he got it absolutely correct in my previous post to you.

Again, Trent's "no justification without the desire" does not mean "justification with the desire". It simply doesn't. The way Trent infallibly puts it, one may or may not be justified via desire, they left it that way on purpose.

1) If you were asked, "can one be justified if they have a desire for the sacrament"? You must answer - "all I know for sure is that without the desire, they cannot be justified".

2) If one were to ask you "is anyone saved without the sacrament"? You must answer - "the sacraments are necessary for salvation".  

You can never be wrong by repeating Trent, which is what 1 and 2 both do.

Aside from the canon saying it explicitly in the first part, the negative tenor of the second part of the canon teaches that the only sure way of obtaining justification is to receive the sacrament, which is also necessary for salvation. Without the sacrament, no one can attain salvation or justification. Without the desire for the sacrament, no one can be justified. Whatever anyone else teaches that differs from this, this is the teaching of Trent.

If you're understanding of Trent does not agree with this, then you are not understanding Trent's teaching.  



Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2021, 04:51:37 PM »
Yes, I know he is safe to quote anything in his Moral Theology. That the sacrament is necessary for salvation is a dogma, it was defined at Trent and therefore belongs with Dogmatic Theology, not Moral Theology. Yet he got it absolutely correct in my previous post to you.

Again, Trent's "no justification without the desire" does not mean "justification with the desire". It simply doesn't. The way Trent infallibly puts it, one may or may not be justified via desire, they left it that way on purpose.

1) If you were asked, "can one be justified if they have a desire for the sacrament"? You must answer - "all I know for sure is that without the desire, they cannot be justified".

2) If one were to ask you "is anyone saved without the sacrament"? You must answer - "the sacraments are necessary for salvation".  

You can never be wrong by repeating Trent, which is what 1 and 2 both do.

Aside from the canon saying it explicitly in the first part, the negative tenor of the second part of the canon teaches that the only sure way of obtaining justification is to receive the sacrament, which is also necessary for salvation. Without the sacrament, no one can attain salvation or justification. Without the desire for the sacrament, no one can be justified. Whatever anyone else teaches that differs from this, this is the teaching of Trent.

If you're understanding of Trent does not agree with this, then you are not understanding Trent's teaching.  
A heretical, schismatic non-Catholic layman such as yourself has no say on interpreting a Holy Roman Catholic Church council such as Trent.


Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Absurdities of The BODers
« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2021, 04:29:24 AM »
You have nothing, all you offer is repeated puerile criticisms. If you ever turn honest and choose to answer the questions you've ignored, then we might get some place - I won't hold my breath waiting for this to ever happen. So far, you've only proven you're not up to the clear challenge placed before you, this is typical of BODers. They always fail to meet the challenge because, like you, they choose to have nothing.

"A lot of crazy thinking is corrected by clear challenges! And I do not know any place where man goes wilder than when he starts to think incorrectly in religious territories." - Fr. Feeney


Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2021, 04:46:45 AM »
I am fairly certain Papa Pius V is NOT LoverofTruth nor the other.  However, I do wonder whether he is some other former poster.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2021, 07:49:58 AM »

Quote
The man says he doesn't know what happens to Catechumens who die and you say that he wasn't debating a Thomistic BOD? 
Trent never says a justified, unbaptized goes to heaven.  St Thomas THEORIZES they would go to purgatory.  But the Church has never said.  If you say otherwise, you’re delusional.