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Author Topic: Possible strict-EENS chapel  (Read 240250 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #335 on: January 28, 2026, 04:38:08 AM »
Quote from: OABrownson1876 on January 27, 2026, 07:21:54 PM
The reign of Pope Pius IX was thirty-two years.  I find it admirable how so many Catholic individuals are just yearning to find a way to put noxious heretics into heaven because they are so sincere in their heresies.  The poor native who was on a desert island, sucking on Coca Cola, looking at his cellphone, but could not find out about the Church.  Poor guy!  It is laughable to think that everything Pope Pius IX has written is infallible.  When the pope writes an Encyclical - even if he is a pre-Vatican II pope - is just as fallible as any other theologian. The only exception is an Encyclical which invokes the charism of infallibility, and even then usually only one or two sentences are the subject of infallibility.
What's really funny is that Pope Pius IX never said that the invincible ignorant is saved in ignorance. Modernists have twisted his words to add stuff that isn't there. He never said he is saved in ignorance or without baptism or without faith, instead he says he is saved by the 'Divine Light' which is of course baptism/the faith. So he is really saying God will provide the means.
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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #336 on: January 28, 2026, 04:41:23 AM »
Quote from: Gray2023 on January 27, 2026, 07:43:31 PM
If I don't get it and others don't get it and there is no official docuŠ¼ent from the church condemning BoD or defining BoD, then it is still up for discussion.  Correct?

If you are talking about people who are Novus Ordo Catholics and people who follow the SSPX then of course they do not believe in EENS, because they have been taught incorrectly. I am just tired of non theologians, people who have no authority in the Church what so ever deciding that this topic has been dogmatically decided and people can call others heretics because of it.  Do not be naive BoDers and Non-BoDers both call each other heretics in a heated debate.  In this day and age nobody seems to know their proper place with God.  Just saying.
Most people extend BoD to non-catechumans, this is heresy and contrary to the speculation of some Saints.

The Church has made infallible statements which make BoD and BoB impossible. The quote by Pope Siricius is ond such example as is Florence.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #337 on: January 28, 2026, 04:43:56 AM »
Quote from: Gray2023 on January 27, 2026, 07:43:31 PM
If I don't get it and others don't get it and there is no official docuŠ¼ent from the church condemning BoD or defining BoD, then it is still up for discussion.  Correct?

If you are talking about people who are Novus Ordo Catholics and people who follow the SSPX then of course they do not believe in EENS, because they have been taught incorrectly. I am just tired of non theologians, people who have no authority in the Church what so ever deciding that this topic has been dogmatically decided and people can call others heretics because of it.  Do not be naive BoDers and Non-BoDers both call each other heretics in a heated debate.  In this day and age nobody seems to know their proper place with God.  Just saying.
Well Gray, we say that Trent condemns a BOD as "some sort of metaphor." All the proponents of a BOD did was name "the metaphor" BOD.  What we do have is the Church infallibly decreeing that the sacrament of baptism is necessary for salvation. As such, anyone lacking that which is necessary for salvation can not, per the Church, attain salvation.

Trent:
CANON II.-If any one saith, that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and, on that account, wrests, to some sort of metaphor, those words of our Lord Jesus Christ; Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema.
CANON V.-If any one saith, that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema.
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Offline Gray2023

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #338 on: January 28, 2026, 05:56:11 AM »
Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora on January 28, 2026, 01:46:47 AM
Gray,
My husband and I spoke to you at SSP&P chapel in York after Mass about 2 years ago when you visited on a Dominican saint Feast because your priest was not well. You were all emotion attacking "Feenyism". You brought it up. When dogma was mentioned, you had absolutely no idea what it was and asked the question "Where do I find dogma?" You are correct, there are no theologians here but some, have been long time Catholics, some for 50+ years in tradition. As a convert and recent in tradition, I respectfully suggest you dedicate your time on subjects you know more about. I've enjoyed some of your topics. "Just saying".
Wow.  I have been in tradition for 20+ years.  And I can't believe you write something like this publicly instead of privately. Just because you have been doing something for a long time, doesn't mean you have the correct answers.  And yes 2 years ago i was emotional about the Crisis and the lack of charity among traditionalists. I now have just learned to accept that people will mostly do what they want because all of us are contaminated by pride.

Again the solution to all this doesn't require getting into the weeds on this topic.  It just requires Catholics doing their best to convert people to Truth.  It should be used as a motivation for us to do the correct thing and not a stick to beat people with. 
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #339 on: January 28, 2026, 08:19:32 AM »
Quote from: Gray2023 on January 28, 2026, 05:56:11 AM
Again the solution to all this doesn't require getting into the weeds on this topic.  
Yes, this is the solution.  If one wants to understand a complex theological question, one has to read, study and research.  If you don't, fine.  Go find another topic.
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