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Author Topic: Possible strict-EENS chapel  (Read 240763 times)

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Online WorldsAway

Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #270 on: December 14, 2025, 09:08:54 AM »
There is simply no way for Angelus to reconcile what he is saying with Church teaching 

The REASON why infants are in limbo(and why he believes some invincibly ignorant may be), and not enjoying the BV, is because of Original Sin. He says that Original Sin is remitted from their Souls at Christ's Second Coming/General Judgement..well then there is nothing barring them from enjoying the Beatific Vision...yet he claims they will not enjoy the Beatific Vision

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Offline Angelus

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #271 on: December 14, 2025, 01:22:01 PM »
Quote from: WorldsAway on December 14, 2025, 05:13:18 AM
"I didn't say this, I didn't say that"

You claim these souls will have Original Sin remitted at/after the Second Coming. Original Sin being the impediment to a soul enjoying the Beatific Vision.

You claim this will be a "similar event" to Our Lord's Sacrifice, which He offered ONCE, on the cross, for the redemption of mankind. Mankind. Was redeemed. ONCE. This same Redemption is what enabled the OT Just to attain the Beatific Vision.

So you are either saying some will have Original Sin remitted and will not be able to enjoy the BV, or you are saying the BV is not enjoyed for eternity

The punishment for Original Sin will have been completed after the Second Coming/General Judgment. The souls who were confined to the Limbo-like places, because they were stained with Original Sin and could not attain the Beatific Vision as disembodied souls, will be finally joined to their glorified bodies. The "place" they will be when that happens is called the New Heaven and New Earth. The disembodied soul will then no longer experience the Beatific Vision because there are no more disembodied souls. 

In the NHNE (the Kingdom of God), after the General Judgment, the embodied souls will see God face to face [Apoc. 22:4]. That is also the Beatific Vision. But it differs in that it is the final destination for ALL righteous people. It is not the intermediate Beatific Vision that is only accessible to those who are not still stained with Original Sin. 

The similar event will have to do with Our Lady and her Coronation as Queen of Heaven and Earth. She is Co-Redemptorix. It is through her that the final mysteries will be effected. It will be her time of glory.

I am staying Original Sin will prevent the unbaptized from experiencing from experiencing the Beatific Vision in the state of a disembodied soul. Once those disembodied souls have been joined to their bodies, they will enter the NHNE and experience the Beatific Vision as souls in their final glorified bodies.

Your binary, either/or thinking is defective. The reason for that is you are ignorant of Catholic eschatology.

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Offline Angelus

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #272 on: December 14, 2025, 01:26:49 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 14, 2025, 07:39:42 AM
Right.  And the ignorant go to limbo WHICH IS PART OF HELL.  They don’t get to take part in NHNE.  The ignorant of the New Testament ARE NOT the same as the OT Just, your main error.  The ignorant of the New Testament DO NOT go to the Abraham’s Bosom, but the separate place called limbo of the infants. 

The old vs New Testament had different religious requirements ergo there are different limbos.  The former was a temporary place.  The latter is permanent. 

No, the Invincibly Ignorant are not culpable for their error, as Pius IX says. And because they are not culpable they will not suffer eternal punishment. 

After the General Judgment, souls united to their bodies are either punished or rewarded. Pius IX said the Invincibly Ingorant will not suffer eternal punishment. Therefore they will be rewarded. The only reward is the NHNE. It is simple logic.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #273 on: December 14, 2025, 02:27:59 PM »
Quote from: WorldsAway on December 14, 2025, 09:08:54 AM
There is simply no way for Angelus to reconcile what he is saying with Church teaching

The REASON why infants are in limbo(and why he believes some invincibly ignorant may be), and not enjoying the BV, is because of Original Sin. He says that Original Sin is remitted from their Souls at Christ's Second Coming/General Judgement..well then there is nothing barring them from enjoying the Beatific Vision...yet he claims they will not enjoy the Beatific Vision

There's also no way to reconcile it with simple logic, since, as you point out, it's contradictory.  This stuff about sin being remitted at the Final Judgment ... that truly savors of the apokatastasis heresy, and he really need to abandon that.
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Online WorldsAway

Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #274 on: December 14, 2025, 02:40:12 PM »

Quote
In the NHNE (the Kingdom of God), after the General Judgment, the embodied souls will see God face to face [Apoc. 22:4]. That is also the Beatific Vision. But it differs in that it is the final destination for ALL righteous people. It is not the intermediate Beatific Vision that is only accessible to those who are not still stained with Original Sin.

The similar event will have to do with Our Lady and her Coronation as Queen of Heaven and Earth. She is Co-Redemptorix. It is through her that the final mysteries will be effected. It will be her time of glory.

Your binary, either/or thinking is defective. The reason for that is you are ignorant of Catholic eschatology.



I'd much rather be ignorant of eschatology than be so "knowledgeable" of it that I end up denying EENS, the necessity of Baptism, Christ's Redemption of mankind on the Cross, Original Sin Dogma, and Justification Dogma

Ultimately, and we are back to the "beginning" once again:

You believe there is salvation outside of the Church

You do, in fact, believe that the invincibly ignorant who die in their ignorance will attain the Beatific Vision..after 10+ pages of saying "it ain't so"

You do not believe that Baptism is necessary for salvation

You do not believe that the Sacraments in general are necessary for salvation

You do not believe that holding even a single article of the Catholic Faith is necessary for salvation

You do not believe that Christ, having offered Himself ONCE for the redemption of mankind, died for all (you posit that there will be a second "similar" redemption-like event at the Second Coming for those in limbo)

^^The above is probably the worst of them all, just incredibly blasphemous. As has already been explained to you, the REASON that the OT Just were in Limbo was because the Messiah had not yet come and redeemed mankind.

After the Redemption (only once (as in one (1) time) accomplished), there is no other redemption. It sufficed for not only the OT Just, but for mankind. There is no other "similar event" that will redeem the infants or invincibly ignorant in Limbo.

It is blasphemous and heretical for you to assert that there will be a second redemption-like event

Rather than accuse me of being "ignorant" of "Catholic eschatology", you should remove yourself from the study of it, considering the conclusions you draw from your research are diametrically opposed to simple Catholic Faith


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