Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Possible strict-EENS chapel  (Read 120514 times)

0 Members and 9 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Angelus

  • Supporter
  • ***
  • Posts: 1648
  • Reputation: +641/-127
  • Gender: Male
Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #270 on: December 13, 2025, 08:43:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • So infants who die with Original Sin and any Invincibly Ignorant who are in limbo will have Original Sin remitted from their souls?

    Again, everything will be made new. Just like Jesus's atonement accomplished what was necessary for the Fathers to leave Limbo and enter the Beatific Vision, there will be a similar event that accomplishes the same for the NT people stuck in Limbo at the end of time.

    I admit, I don't know exactly how it will happen.

    Offline Angelus

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1648
    • Reputation: +641/-127
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #271 on: December 13, 2025, 08:47:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is just BS and a denial of the necessity of baptism and of the Chruch.  It sounds like some new-age, Protestant fairy tale where all the “good” people that died outside the Chruch will get a pass and have the same reward as Catholics. 

    If you want to argue that those in limbo eventually go to the New Earth, then that’s plausible.  But they would NOT enter the new heaven.  Nor would their original sin be remitted somehow.  That’s heresy.

    For the 53rd time, you comparing Moses to an invincibly ignorant native is blasphemy.  Moses followed the Old Law; the native Indian followed the natural law, only.  Moses was circuмcised.  Moses believed in the redeemer.  The ONLY THING Moses lacked was baptism, which he received in Limbo.  The native Indian believed in no God, or one that was general.  He had no religion.  He worshipped God in no significant religious way.  The 2 are INCOMPARABLE. 

    As I have shown you at least 3 times, there will be a New Heaven and New Earth that are merged into one. There will no longer be a split between those two places. That is what Apocalypse 21 says.

    After the General Judgment, there will only be two places for souls: the NHNE and Hell. Why? Because there will only be two types of people (souls merged with bodies): the righteous and the reprobate.


    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1395
    • Reputation: +907/-129
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #272 on: December 13, 2025, 08:53:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Again, everything will be made new. Just like Jesus's atonement accomplished what was necessary for the Fathers to leave Limbo and enter the Beatific Vision, there will be a similar event that accomplishes the same for the NT people stuck in Limbo at the end of time.

    I admit, I don't know exactly how it will happen.
    Why can you not just answer the question?

    Either:

    Those infants and any Invincibly Ignorant in Limbo will be allowed to enter NHNE with Original Sin on their souls

    Or

    Those infants and any Invincibly Ignorant in Limbo will have Original Sin remitted from their souls at Christ's Second Coming

    Can you rule one of these scenarios out?

    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Angelus

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1648
    • Reputation: +641/-127
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #273 on: December 13, 2025, 09:00:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Why can you not just answer the question?

    Either:

    Those infants and any Invincibly Ignorant in Limbo will be allowed to enter NHNE with Original Sin on their souls

    Or

    Those infants and any Invincibly Ignorant in Limbo will have Original Sin remitted from their souls at Christ's Second Coming

    Can you rule one of these scenarios out?

    Sorry, I thought my answer was obvious. Your second option is what I believe will happen. 

    I rule out the idea that Original Sin will be carried into the NHNE because everything is made new. The old stain of Original Sin will be gone just as the bifurcation of Heaven and Earth will be gone.

    Original Sin included as its punishment exclusion from Paradise. When the new Paradise is restored that old stain will be no longer relevant. 

    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1395
    • Reputation: +907/-129
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #274 on: December 13, 2025, 09:19:02 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Sorry, I thought my answer was obvious. Your second option is what I believe will happen.

    I rule out the idea that Original Sin will be carried into the NHNE because everything is made new. The old stain of Original Sin will be gone just as the bifurcation of Heaven and Earth will be gone.

    Original Sin included as its punishment exclusion from Paradise. When the new Paradise is restored that old stain will be no longer relevant.
    So after all of the obfuscation and word games, you do believe that some of the Invincibly Ignorant who die in their ignorance can attain the Beatific Vision, you extend this to the infants who die in original sin as well. You could have just said this at the very beginning, or at least about halfway through when you claimed my mistake was equating Paradise with Heaven, and therefore thinking you meant the invincibly ignorant can attain the Beatific Vision. Well, you did. You're incredibly deceitful..and simply not Catholic 

    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1395
    • Reputation: +907/-129
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #275 on: December 13, 2025, 09:19:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Just like Jesus's atonement accomplished what was necessary for the Fathers to leave Limbo and enter the Beatific Vision, there will be a similar event that accomplishes the same for the NT people stuck in Limbo at the end of time.
    And this is just absolutely insane. You are saying that there will be a "similar event" to Our Lord's Sacrifice that will uniquely accomplish the same for those in limbo? Our Lord offered Himself ONCE for the redemption of mankind. That is dogma
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1395
    • Reputation: +907/-129
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #276 on: December 13, 2025, 09:26:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • And this is just absolutely insane. You are saying that there will be a "similar event" to Our Lord's Sacrifice that will uniquely accomplish the same for those in limbo? Our Lord offered Himself ONCE for the redemption of mankind. That is dogma
    Rather, "MY Lord". You are a wicked heretic. I will pray for your conversion 
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Angelus

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1648
    • Reputation: +641/-127
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #277 on: December 13, 2025, 09:29:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • So after all of the obfuscation and word games, you do believe that some of the Invincibly Ignorant who die in their ignorance can attain the Beatific Vision, you extend this to the infants who die in original sin as well. You could have just said this at the very beginning, or at least about halfway through when you claimed my mistake was equating Paradise with Heaven, and therefore thinking you meant the invincibly ignorant can attain the Beatific Vision. Well, you did. You're incredibly deceitful..and simply not Catholic

    You still don't understand. The Invincibly Ignorant will NOT enter the beatific vision. They will go straight from limbo (or wherever they are) to the NHNE. I have said this multiple times. Why can't you get it?


    Offline Angelus

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1648
    • Reputation: +641/-127
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #278 on: December 13, 2025, 09:33:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • And this is just absolutely insane. You are saying that there will be a "similar event" to Our Lord's Sacrifice that will uniquely accomplish the same for those in limbo? Our Lord offered Himself ONCE for the redemption of mankind. That is dogma

    Read the Apocalypse. The events described there are the passion, death, and resurrection of the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ.

    Nowhere did I say that Jesus would offer himself again as he did 2000 years ago.

    Offline Angelus

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1648
    • Reputation: +641/-127
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #279 on: December 13, 2025, 09:37:17 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Rather, "MY Lord". You are a wicked heretic. I will pray for your conversion

    Prayers for me are always welcome. I will pray for you as well.

    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1395
    • Reputation: +907/-129
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #280 on: December 14, 2025, 05:13:18 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • "I didn't say this, I didn't say that"

    You claim these souls will have Original Sin remitted at/after the Second Coming. Original Sin being the impediment to a soul enjoying the Beatific Vision. 

    You claim this will be a "similar event" to Our Lord's Sacrifice, which He offered ONCE, on the cross, for the redemption of mankind. Mankind. Was redeemed. ONCE. This same Redemption is what enabled the OT Just to attain the Beatific Vision. 

    So you are either saying some will have Original Sin remitted and will not be able to enjoy the BV, or you are saying the BV is not enjoyed for eternity 
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 48256
    • Reputation: +28489/-5328
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #281 on: December 14, 2025, 06:49:34 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • "I didn't say this, I didn't say that"

    You claim these souls will have Original Sin remitted at/after the Second Coming. Original Sin being the impediment to a soul enjoying the Beatific Vision.

    You claim this will be a "similar event" to Our Lord's Sacrifice, which He offered ONCE, on the cross, for the redemption of mankind. Mankind. Was redeemed. ONCE. This same Redemption is what enabled the OT Just to attain the Beatific Vision.

    So you are either saying some will have Original Sin remitted and will not be able to enjoy the BV, or you are saying the BV is not enjoyed for eternity

    Apart from the fact that he keeps redefining terms, where there's eternal Hell and regular Hell = Purgatory ... yeah, he does sound like he's rehashing the Origen heresy :  "apokatastasis" (in Greek), and the same thing that Bergoglios evidently spewed about to Scalfari.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 48256
    • Reputation: +28489/-5328
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #282 on: December 14, 2025, 06:52:33 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Rather, "MY Lord". You are a wicked heretic. I will pray for your conversion

    I usually give a lot of leeway here, but there are two here on CI that I have no choice but to call out as heretics, because they spew heresy, repeatedly, over and over again, despite having been corrected.  What this means is that they've already pre-decided that they don't like EENS dogma as the Church meant it, so they try to redefine.  There's actually a lot of room for speculation here where the Church hasn't defined it.  Limbo didn't become a concept until the 12th century.  So, it's not an innovation, as the Church condemned those who claimed it was Pelagian heresy, since it derives from various theological principles, but it is speculation.  There's a lot that God did not reveal about eternity, and that's undoubtedly because He doesn't want people to get complacent in sin and not fear eternity.

    Online Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13210
    • Reputation: +8325/-2574
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #283 on: December 14, 2025, 07:39:42 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • As I have shown you at least 3 times, there will be a New Heaven and New Earth that are merged into one. There will no longer be a split between those two places. That is what Apocalypse 21 says.

    After the General Judgment, there will only be two places for souls: the NHNE and Hell. Why? Because there will only be two types of people (souls merged with bodies): the righteous and the reprobate.
    Right.  And the ignorant go to limbo WHICH IS PART OF HELL.  They don’t get to take part in NHNE.  The ignorant of the New Testament ARE NOT the same as the OT Just, your main error.  The ignorant of the New Testament DO NOT go to the Abraham’s Bosom, but the separate place called limbo of the infants.  

    The old vs New Testament had different religious requirements ergo there are different limbos.  The former was a temporary place.  The latter is permanent.  

    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1395
    • Reputation: +907/-129
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
    « Reply #284 on: December 14, 2025, 09:08:54 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • There is simply no way for Angelus to reconcile what he is saying with Church teaching 

    The REASON why infants are in limbo(and why he believes some invincibly ignorant may be), and not enjoying the BV, is because of Original Sin. He says that Original Sin is remitted from their Souls at Christ's Second Coming/General Judgement..well then there is nothing barring them from enjoying the Beatific Vision...yet he claims they will not enjoy the Beatific Vision

    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.