Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: On Feeneyism (poem)  (Read 19568 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
On Feeneyism (poem)
« on: December 30, 2010, 12:26:22 PM »
De Feeneyismo - Iterum
(in iambic pentameter)

The Feeneyites think all of those who died,
unbaptized, will be sent to Hell, and fried!

The simple-minded really ought to know
the grace of God is more than H-2-0!

They have their pride, they want to understand:
It must be simple for the mind of man.

Respond to grace? Does that mean water's off?
"Too simple," I inject between a cough.

Since many Catholics land themselves in Hell,
Think you that life in Pagan Land is swell?

And just because the Lord gives each a chance,
the godless Pagans have no cause to dance:

For their whole world does war against the soul:
instilling vice, the devil's on a roll!

They have no sacraments, no Catholic books,
they have no priests to get them off the hook.

For missionaries there is quite a need;
For all these souls from darkness must be freed.

What number save their souls with driest head?
We leave the mystery to God instead.

For God can give his grace to whom He will:
He need not use a liquid or a pill.

Of course there are the ordinary means;
(The truth is not at opposite extreme)

And it is quite forbidden to assume
that for THIS pagan, God has made a Room.

For Christ commanded priests to Baptise men,
that they, through Holy Ghost, be born again.

For Baptism is not an option clicked,
like something in a menu that is picked.

So if you would be freed from Adam's fault,
Bring out the Font, the water and the salt.

But once you have been baptized, be aware:
the obligations in your face will stare.

Though countless men have all been baptized well,
You never know who you could meet in Hell!

So all you Catholics heed now what I say,
And strive to do God's holy will each day:
Take care of family, work and also pray,
and study well the errors of today!

Waste not your time and argue with your peers,
hawk Feeneyism like you work at Sears,
For if you take this path for twenty years,
On deathbed you will find yourself in tears!

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
On Feeneyism (poem)
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2010, 02:06:05 PM »
Tradycja -- is that supposed to be a rebuttal?  A pretty poor one if you ask me.

The quotes you gave were completely out of context and were not a rebuttal of the position I laid out.

The quote about "God not commanding the impossible" was a refutation of Luther's teaching that God's commandments are impossible to observe. What does that have to do with Baptism of Desire?

Nice that you agree with me on some of the points:

Quote
For Baptism is not an option clicked,
like something in a menu that is picked!

Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, Can. 5 on the Sacrament of Baptism, ex cathedra: “If anyone says that baptism  is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation (cf. Jn. 3:5): let him be anathema.”


Matthew


Offline Matthew

  • Mod
On Feeneyism (poem)
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2010, 02:11:40 PM »
Tradycja -- what problem do you have with me, in my daily life, because I am not a Feeneyite? In other words, who cares?

I know the Catholic Faith, but I didn't study enough Theology to be able to teach it to others. I think there's a good chance you're not a theologian either (unless you count the Armchair variety).

For example, water Baptism is necessary quoad nos (We have to choose it; it's not optional) but it's not necessary in another sense. God has to give the grace of justification, because Original Sin closes the gates of heaven, and natural virtue isn't enough for salvation.

Nevertheless it's not impossible that someone could be lacking water baptism and could still save his soul. Perhaps the only good example is the Catechumen getting run over by a car? Maybe all the examples of ignorant pagans aren't good examples, because it's virtually impossible to follow God in such a case? Who knows. It's a mystery. The Church doesn't go into talk of "numbers" -- just the fact that Baptism of Desire exists.

And I do believe in Baptism of Desire, just as I believe in Baptism of Blood and every other doctrine of the Catholic Faith.

I also believe in EENS -- extra ecclesiam nulla salus -- outside the Church there is no salvation. But those who have been baptised by desire or in their blood are BAPTISED so they're not outside the Church.

Matthew

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
On Feeneyism (poem)
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2010, 02:15:29 PM »
Quote
What if a pagan never sees a priest?

St. Thomas Aquinas, De Veritate, 14, A. 11, ad 1: Objection- “It is possible that someone may be brought up in the forest, or among wolves; such a man cannot explicitly know anything about the faith.  St. Thomas replies- It is the characteristic of Divine Providence to provide every man with what is necessary for salvation… provided on his part there is no hindrance.  In the case of a man who seeks good and shuns evil, by the leading of natural reason, God would either reveal to him through internal inspiration what had to be believed, or would send some preacher of the faith to him…”


Your quote here seems to suggest BoD.

God revealing to him what had to be believed...God could justify him as well if the man was properly disposed.

You know, of course, that such disposition includes the implicit desire to do what God wants -- what the Church requires, etc. including Baptism. But the man might be ignorant of what that entails.

Matthew

On Feeneyism (poem)
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 02:16:14 PM »
 :applause: