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Author Topic: New video from mhfm on baptism of the old testament saints  (Read 8928 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: New video from mhfm on baptism of the old testament saints
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2023, 12:27:37 PM »
Quote from: OABrownson1876 on June 14, 2023, 11:43:05 AM
Thanks Lad for the St. Joseph article, I will give it a read.  I have never seen this St. Francis de Sales quote, I am interested to read the article.

Apart from the theological reasons adduced by these saints who held this, I find it extremely telling that we have no 1st Class Relics of St. Joseph anywhere.
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Offline OABrownson1876

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Re: New video from mhfm on baptism of the old testament saints
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2023, 12:31:36 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on June 14, 2023, 12:27:37 PM
Apart from the theological reasons adduced by these saints who held this, I find it extremely telling that we have no 1st Class Relics of St. Joseph anywhere.
Yes, I agree, the absence of relics does suggest these saintly theories correct.  But if I recall we have no 1st Class relics of St. John the Beloved either.  Of course it could be that St. John is in heaven body and soul as well as St. Joseph.  My theory is that since Mary is the mother of the Mystical Body of Christ, she was the first baptized; since St. Joseph is the father of the Mystical Body of Christ, he will be the last baptized.  I base this only upon my "feelings," and Bp. Williamson would call me out on it!
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Offline Marulus Fidelis

Re: New video from mhfm on baptism of the old testament saints
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2023, 10:19:52 AM »
Quote from: OABrownson1876 on June 14, 2023, 12:31:36 PM
Yes, I agree, the absence of relics does suggest these saintly theories correct.  But if I recall we have no 1st Class relics of St. John the Beloved either.  Of course it could be that St. John is in heaven body and soul as well as St. Joseph.  My theory is that since Mary is the mother of the Mystical Body of Christ, she was the first baptized; since St. Joseph is the father of the Mystical Body of Christ, he will be the last baptized.  I base this only upon my "feelings," and Bp. Williamson would call me out on it!
Bp. Williamson also succuмbs to his feelings contrary to reason at times. Such as when he said Wojtyla and Ratzinger are "sincere" and "good persons." Two of the most evil men to ever walk the earth.
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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: New video from mhfm on baptism of the old testament saints
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2023, 11:34:28 AM »
Quote from: Mithrandylan on June 14, 2023, 10:40:09 AM
In Benedictus Deus, pope Benedict XII solemnly defined that the souls of the just and of the reprobate are judged and given their reward/punishment upon death with no delay. The pope seems to have rather carefully avoided saying anything about the body (other than affirming it will be joined to the soul at the eschaton). Nevertheless, this solemn definition seems to more or less preclude any additional opportunities for justification after actual death.

https://www.papalencyclicals.net/ben12/b12bdeus.htm

Hi, Mith. I agree with you if the Latin equivalent of "with no delay" or "immediately," which is the word used in the English translation, appeared in the Latin text. However, I checked my copy of BD in my later edition of Denzinger which has the Latin text (picture attached), and the operative word in Latin seems to be "mox."

I'm no Latinist by any means - I can only pray the Rosary in it and have some knowledge from the Missal and my interlinear DR/Vulgate New Testament - but when I checked available Latin dictionaries it seems that "mox" can mean merely "soon" or "shortly thereafter," and not necessarily "with no delay" or "immediately."

Perhaps Lad or someone who knows Latin can comment.
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Online Pax Vobis

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Re: New video from mhfm on baptism of the old testament saints
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2023, 01:11:04 PM »
My opinion is St Joesph ascended into heaven. Enoch and Elias aren’t dead so they are somewhere on earth (some say the Garden of Eden) to await the End Times.  

St John the Apostle is also not dead (his body is not in the tomb at Ephesus).  The apparition at Knock shows St John in Bishop’s attire and preaching, while holding an open book (probably the apocalypse).  So he will also come back in the End Times.  And he may also be in Eden. 
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