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Author Topic: Is there REALLY no anti-BOD congregation?  (Read 18578 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is there REALLY no anti-BOD congregation?
« Reply #345 on: September 11, 2023, 06:14:30 AM »
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  • Yes and no.  Sins of heresy cannot just be confessed and forgotten.  There is a requirement for public abjuration of the error, since heresy is a public sin.  Also, in "normal" times, priests would have to get the permission of the Bishop before absolving heretics of sin, to make sure the heretic fulfilled all the requirements to be one of the faithful again.


    But, overall, I agree with your general principle that a heretic is still part of the Church, just an excommunicated member.  This is different from a pagan or some unbaptized protestant, who has never been a member at all.
    This is not true Pax, Canon Law states a public abjuration is required only for adult converts prior to baptism, or if the pope or bishop requires it, or if the confessor requires it, or if public abjuration is officially attached to that censure, other than that the norm is no public abjuration. I posted the applicable Canon Law a few years ago, it's out there if someone wants to find it.

    Remember, there are reasons for those provisions in this law. I do not know but perhaps one reason for this is likely  that a blanket rule of public abjuration in all cases across the board might have the potential of doing more harm than good. Another reason is that the lifting of all excommunications is in the traditional formula of absolution that the priest already says in confession. The priest through the Church first removes the censure, then forgives the sin.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is there REALLY no anti-BOD congregation?
    « Reply #346 on: September 11, 2023, 08:26:28 AM »
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  • Quote
    This is not true Pax, Canon Law states a public abjuration is required only for adult converts prior to baptism, or if the pope or bishop requires it, or if the confessor requires it, or if public abjuration is officially attached to that censure, other than that the norm is no public abjuration. I posted the applicable Canon Law a few years ago, it's out there if someone wants to find it.

    I was referring to extreme cases of heresy, where a person was excommunicated (i.e. Martin Luther or any current Modernist).  Their crimes are very great, and the public scandal they have caused is so extreme; they could not just walk into a confession and reverse all of that.  Imagine if Joe Biden wanted to become a Traditionalist.  If we had a Trad pope/bishops, they would require some public abjuration because his errors were so public and wide-spread.


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Is there REALLY no anti-BOD congregation?
    « Reply #347 on: September 11, 2023, 09:25:27 AM »
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  • I was referring to extreme cases of heresy, where a person was excommunicated (i.e. Martin Luther or any current Modernist).  Their crimes are very great, and the public scandal they have caused is so extreme; they could not just walk into a confession and reverse all of that.  Imagine if Joe Biden wanted to become a Traditionalist.  If we had a Trad pope/bishops, they would require some public abjuration because his errors were so public and wide-spread.
    Ah ok, I see. Makes sense of course.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Is there REALLY no anti-BOD congregation?
    « Reply #348 on: September 13, 2023, 09:28:33 PM »
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  • I quoted St. Thomas Aquinas who says baptism without the faith is useless. Remember, many (nearly all?) baptized Catholics end up in hell too, it only takes one mortal sin. Doesn't matter which mortal sin - and heresy can be and lead to mortal sin. Whatever mortal sin(s) we die with are the sins we will eternally regret. That's the worm that dieth not, which St. Thomas says is the primary punishment in hell, or the punishment that will give us the most suffering.

    Remember also that to *not* have the Catholic faith is a sin (John 16:9) in and of itself, to die in this sin alone merits hell, this what the dogma EENS teaches. This explains why to be baptized without the Catholic faith is useless. Fr. Wathen said it something like, "being baptized without the Catholic faith is totally useless, it's like having an owners manual for a car without the car."

    Trent's catechism puts it like this: "...Heretics and schismatics are excluded from the Church, because they have separated from her and belong to her only as deserters belong to the army from which they have deserted. It is not, however, to be denied that they are still subject to the jurisdiction of  the Church, inasmuch as they may be called before her tribunals, punished and anathematised..."

    Note the underlined, it says "they belong to her." They belong to her only as deserters yes, but the catechism does not say they no longer belong to her, or are no longer members, it says that they still belong to her.
    *Only as deserters belong to an army.*
     The deserters are no longer in the army, the army still has jurisdiction over them. 

    Online Ana Von Bingen

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    Re: Is there REALLY no anti-BOD congregation?
    « Reply #349 on: May 07, 2024, 02:24:35 PM »
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  • I was the one who originally posted that they might be CIA plants, I could be wrong on that point but if one looks at a lot of the evidence against them, it's pretty overwhelming that they have some serious issues and are very suspect.

    1.  It's well known that they filter comments in the videos they allow comments on and only leave comments up that point out how "great" they are or occasionally a comment that they can refute.  There's even a few comments saying things like "Looks like these guys are the 2 Witnesses of Apocalypse!" but the Dimonds never remove those comments or in humilty correct them.  Why?

    2.  If one looks at both sides of the lawsuit with Hoyle and not just believing what the Dimonds say about it, the Dimonds don't really come out smelling like roses.

    3.  What they did to Jorge Clavellina was disgusting and Jorge has a lot of refutations of them as he was a hardened Dimondite at one point and has first hand knowledge of what they're like.  Dimond Data is the YT channel.

    4.  "RI" has a lot of material against them as well showing how they are Sarabaite monks and the mysterious death of Joseph Natale and how Mike (Fred) basically took his place without having the proper prerequisites.  I don't really want to link this "RI" guy because of his radical beliefs on other things. 

    5.  They threaten people who don't agree with them on every little point they make.  Even making comments like "we know where you live" or "you wouldn't say that to my face you punk."  Does that sound like monk behavior to you?

    6.  They've been pointed out by several people how they are wrong about JPII being the Antichrist based on the Church Fathers and just common sense but Dimonds still push it.  Why?  Sounds like an agenda to me.

    7.  They never talk about how they were wrong about this or that, no matter what, they behave and come across like they have all the answers to what's going on and will stick to their "script."

    8.  As someone pointed out in another thread they show people how to make a contract with Satan in their 3 hour magician video, if they had any prudence they would leave that out.

    There's more I could say but I'll leave it at that as those are the most important points.  Of course they will have good material as well, shills have a lot of truth on their side or else people wouldn't really follow them, they have to appear to be very Catholic and Holy so of course they will refute Prots and "Orthodox" but it's that 1% poison one has to be vigilant about.  I was a big follower of theirs as well and thought about joining at one point until I was shown what fakes they actually are.
    "...a hardened Dimondite"
    LOL