Author Topic: St. Aug St. Thomas Salamances on BOD (Read 5179 times)

bowler · « **Reply #45 on:** October 25, 2013, 05:53:41 AM »

Dear Stubborn,

You will find that SJB just post irrelevant 1 liners (of whatever pops into his head) just to derail or dilute the subject of a thread. It is best just to ignore his postings or else he will accomplish his purpose. I'd suggest using the ignore button, as he never makes anything but one line derailments on this subject of BOD.

Example:

Quote from: SJB

The "feeneyites," are those who hold the error that only defined dogmas must be held by Catholics.

That is the same ignorant cliche as:

Quote

"Catholics" are those who hold the error of worshipping the pope, Mary, and statues.

SJB · « **Reply #46 on:** October 25, 2013, 07:21:37 AM »

Quote from: bowler

Dear Stubborn,

You will find that SJB just post irrelevant 1 liners (of whatever pops into his head) just to derail or dilute the subject of a thread. It is best just to ignore his postings or else he will accomplish his purpose. I'd suggest using the ignore button, as he never makes anything but one line derailments on this subject of BOD.

Example:
Quote from: SJB

The "feeneyites," are those who hold the error that only defined dogmas must be held by Catholics.

That is the same ignorant cliche as:

Quote
"Catholics" are those who hold the error of worshipping the pope, Mary, and statues.

Bowler, you and stubborn are on record saying defined dogmas "as written" are the only thing that truly matters. Everything else is "not infallible" and you argue with whatever doesn't suit your agenda. So yes, you are exactly like the Protestant who erroneously believes something different (Catholics believe in worshipping the pope, Mary, and statues) that the error that you believe (Catholics only hold defined dogmas). Yours is a different error, but an error nonetheless.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #47 on:** October 25, 2013, 07:28:28 AM »

Quote

"There is not one dogmatic element in the Mystici Corporis neglected or overlooked in the standard literature of school theology since the Middle Ages. Obviously not every author taught every point. Again, there were various individual writers and teachers who presented elements of the Mystical Body doctrine imperfectly and incompletely. The charge however is leveled at school theology as such, and that charge cannot be sustained. Fenton

Bowler and Stubborn have you read all the standard literature of school theology composed since the Middle Ages in its original language and understood it as Father Fenton has? No? But you are right on the subject and he is wrong? Hmm.

bowler · « **Reply #48 on:** October 25, 2013, 08:38:46 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote
"There is not one dogmatic element in the Mystici Corporis neglected or overlooked in the standard literature of school theology since the Middle Ages. Obviously not every author taught every point. Again, there were various individual writers and teachers who presented elements of the Mystical Body doctrine imperfectly and incompletely. The charge however is leveled at school theology as such, and that charge cannot be sustained. Fenton

Bowler and Stubborn have you read all the standard literature of school theology composed since the Middle Ages in its original language and understood it as Father Fenton has? No? But you are right on the subject and he is wrong? Hmm.

This thread is about the similarity between St. Augustine and St. Thomas and how they are both miles away from the teaching of the school of Salamanca. What does your comment have to do with anything I wrote? Fr. Fenton believed as St. Thomas.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #49 on:** October 25, 2013, 08:45:28 AM »

First of all I am not sure Augustine disagreed with Saint Thomas. Secondly if he appeared to disagree it is because the understand of the doctrine had not been clarified. What I am posting shows the process on how it was clarified:

Quote

"Still, it is one thing to say that the older school theologians did not neglect the theology of the Mystical Body and quite another to deny that the Mystici Corporis and the various competent theological treatises on this same subject in our own time represent a definite progress in theological science. Modern theologians such as Mura, Tromp and Gruden have advanced the work of sacred theology considerably by writing their treatises on the Mystical Body. They have performed a work which previous theologians had left undone, not because the older writers failed to consider the teaching, but simply and solely because the science was not far enough advanced in previous times for the sort of work these recent theologians have accomplished. Fenton

Do you see any error in the above quote?

bowler · « **Reply #50 on:** October 25, 2013, 08:58:16 AM »

Dear LOT,

Your last quote has nothing to do with this thread. Stick to the subject.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #51 on:** October 25, 2013, 09:11:36 AM »

Quote from: bowler

Dear LOT,

Your last quote has nothing to do with this thread. Stick to the subject.

You must not have read the post which dealt precisely with the topic, besides we are trying to get to the bottom of the whole BOB/D right? We only want the truth whatever it is correct? Father Fenton provides it for us:

Quote

"What Pope Pius has done, and what the modern school theologians of the Mystical Body have done, is to bring together from every part of theology the various theses which will help men to appreciate the ineffable truth of the Catholic Church's union with our Lord. In doing this they acted in accordance with the principle laid down by the Constitution Dei Filius of the Vatican Council, which taught that men might obtain from God a certain understanding, - and a most fruitful understanding, - of the divine mysteries through the use of analogy with things known naturally and by a comparison of the mysteries among themselves and with the last end of man. The twentieth century theologians of the Mystical Body have simply arrived at a more perfect presentation of their doctrine by bringing together elements which are explained in many parts of sacred doctrine. Fenton

I know Father Fenton scares you to death because he does not agree with you but he is someone you are going to have to deal with if you want to be vindicated in your position. Any error in the above statement?

bowler · « **Reply #52 on:** October 25, 2013, 09:35:25 AM »

The quote has nothing to do with the thread. Fr.Fenton believed as St. Thomas, therefore, we don't need to even discuss Fr. Fenton here.

Your comment that you know that "Fr. Fenton scares me to death", tells me that you are more afraid of being shown to be wrong, than you are of seeking truth. Maybe you are scared to death to be shown to be wrong, but I welcome it.

SJB · « **Reply #53 on:** October 25, 2013, 09:46:34 AM »

Quote from: bowler

The quote has nothing to do with the thread. Fr.Fenton believed as St. Thomas, therefore, we don't need to even discuss Fr. Fenton here.

Your comment that you know that "Fr. Fenton scares me to death", tells me that you are more afraid of being shown to be wrong, than you are of seeking truth. Maybe you are scared to death to be shown to be wrong, but I welcome it.

The fact is that you, bowler, are insulated from ever being proven wrong because you are your own rule of faith. Impenetrable.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #54 on:** October 25, 2013, 11:45:26 AM »

This answers your question bowler as to why "it took until 1957 to 'get it right'"

They explained it more clearly is what actually happened:

Quote

"The writers of school theology from the fifteenth century to the nineteenth are not guilty of neglecting the teaching on the Mystical Body simply because this section of sacred doctrine has been developed in our own times. They knew and explained the theology of the Mystical Body even though they did not write the complete twentieth century type of treatise on this subject. The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, and the older school theologians were quite well aware of the fact. The theology of the Mystical Body is that portion of sacred doctrine in which we find the scientific exposition of the revealed message about the connection of the Catholic Church with our Lord. The school theologians knew and taught the theology of the Mystical body. A complete theological treatise on the Mystical Body is one in which all the theological elements pertinent to the Church's union with our Lord are brought together and compared, for the sake of a still more perfect and profound understanding of the mystery. The complete theological treatise on the Mystical Body is one of the glories of our own day. It would be naïve in the extreme to blame earlier theologians for not having done what has been distinctively a twentieth century work. Fenton

Monsignor Fenton has read all the theological elements pertinent to the Church's union with our Lord have you?

The Monsignor fully understood the complete theological treatise on the Mystical Body, you do not. Why do you dare claim he does not know what he is talking about as you suggest when you tell us all that he erred on this issue?

bowler · « **Reply #55 on:** October 26, 2013, 06:00:13 AM »

For the 5th time, your posting has nothing to do with this thread.

SJB · « **Reply #56 on:** October 26, 2013, 07:39:30 AM »

Quote from: bowler

The quote has nothing to do with the thread. Fr.Fenton believed as St. Thomas, therefore, we don't need to even discuss Fr. Fenton here.

Your comment that you know that "Fr. Fenton scares me to death", tells me that you are more afraid of being shown to be wrong, than you are of seeking truth. Maybe you are scared to death to be shown to be wrong, but I welcome it.

The fact is that you, bowler, are insulated from ever being proven wrong because you are your own rule of faith. Impenetrable.