CathInfo.com

Genuinuely curious here - how do those who reject BOD understand the following from the Council of Trent and St Alphonsus in regards to the same?

Council of Trent 1545-1563
Canons on the Sacraments in General: - (Canon 4):
   "If anyone shall say that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation, but are superfluous, and that although all are not necessary for every individual, without them or without the desire of them (sine eis aut eorum voto), through faith alone men obtain from God the grace of justification; let him be anathema."

Have you read the canon? I very often wonder if those who promote a BOD have ever actually sat down for 2 minutes and actually read what they copy and paste.

BOD is not a sacrament. The canon literally starts by saying the sacraments are necessary for salvation - do you believe the sacraments are necessary for salvation?

"If anyone shall say that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation, but are superfluous,......let him be anathema.



The second part of the canon continues along that same theme, it does not first decree the sacraments are necessary, then they are not necessary. So keeping in mind the sacraments are necessary.......

and [if anyone shall say] that although all are not necessary for every individual, without them or without the desire of them, through faith alone men obtain from God the grace of justification; let him be anathema."

If you read the canon as written without zooming into one word "desire" and ignoring the rest of the entire canon - and council for that matter, you will note that:

Per the canon, 1) The sacraments are necessary for salvation -  and 2) those people are anathema who say that without the sacraments, or without the desire of the sacraments, (through faith alone) men can be JUSTIFIED.

So first, the canon does not guarantee salvation to anyone, baptized or not, the canon literally only states that the sacraments themselves are necessary for salvation and whoever says they are not is anathema.

Second, not even the requirement for salvation, justification, is guaranteed. In fact, a BOD, i.e. justification through faith alone, (without the sacraments or the desire of them) is condemned with anathema.

No worries, I likely will not participate further in this thread unless you want to debate the actual meaning of this canon, using this canon, the words of this canon or some other version of this canon.

My goal here is to get the BODers to see what this canon is actually saying, so they can understand and accept what it actually means, so they will stop using this canon to promote a BOD because it actually condemns a BOD.

Otherwise, feel free to ignore the whole thing and keep on keeping on, I will obey the canon and simply, let you be anathema.  

Lol. No desire to debate, as I stated, I was genuinely interested in a perspective I was unable to find. Thank you.

Ah, ok - my apologies, normally any thread starting out with those quotes turns into a hundred pages of the same tired old arguments.

The other thing I want to say, is that if the canon said what the BODers claim it says, then the only way to accomplish using that canon, is if the canon was worded like this, or something like this:

If anyone shall say that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation, but are superfluous,
 and [if anyone shall say] we declare, define and pronounce that although all [of the sacraments] are not necessary for every individual, without them or without the desire of them, through faith alone men obtain from God the grace of justification." let him be anathema.