Author Topic: Fr. hαɾɾιson corrects The Wanderer for their misinterpretation of EENS (Read 24972 times)

LM · « **Reply #100 on:** March 07, 2011, 02:05:41 PM »

Quote from: SJB

Are you unable to differentiate between pre-Vatican II and post-Vatican II?

Quote from: LM

Let me make it clearer for you SJB. When we speak/say the Church, we take into account Her human element. As our history has shown, within the minds of this human element error/unorthodoxy/heresy has been/will be born. Error(s) born in the mind of Arius engulfed the Church to such an extent that it is valid and not heretical to say that the majority of the Church was Arian. Of course this needs for one to understand that when speaking of error/unorthodoxy/heresy in terms of the Church, we are speaking of the human element in the Church.

Quote from: SJB

The Church does not teach error. Surely there were ememies within the structure of the Church. Nobody is arguing that was not the case. What you are implying is that the Church was leading the Faithful into error, which is heretical.

Quote from: LM

That "implication" is born in your head SJB. So stop picking at straws.

Quote from: SJB

What are you saying then? Otherwise, saying pre-v2 led to v2 is like saying the 19th century led to the 20th. It is meaningless.

Quote from: LM

Blowing smoke SJB.

Quote from: SJB

Nonsense, LM.

SJB you can't even keep up with yourself and end up shooting your own foot. In the context of the Church, if pre-v2 leading to post-v2 is "meaningless" than we wouldn't be on the spot of differentiating between pre-v2 from post-v2.

Lighthouse · « **Reply #101 on:** March 07, 2011, 03:06:30 PM »

Quote from: LM

Error(s) born in the mind of Arius engulfed the Church to such an extent that it is valid and not heretical to say that the majority of the Church was Arian

It is not valid, and it is heretical.

LM · « **Reply #102 on:** March 07, 2011, 03:33:27 PM »

Quote from: Lighthouse

Quote from: LM
Error(s) born in the mind of Arius engulfed the Church to such an extent that it is valid and not heretical to say that the majority of the Church was Arian

It is not valid, and it is heretical.

Turn on the light-switch, Lighthouse. It would heretical only if one divorces Her from Her human element/attribute, splitting Her in two, where the words the Church make reference only to Her Divine Eternal Truth. As I said prior, when speaking of the Church and error/unorthodoxy/heresy it is referencing Her human element/attribute.

SJB · « **Reply #103 on:** March 07, 2011, 05:11:00 PM »

Quote from: LM

Quote from: Lighthouse
Quote from: LM
Error(s) born in the mind of Arius engulfed the Church to such an extent that it is valid and not heretical to say that the majority of the Church was Arian

It is not valid, and it is heretical.

Turn on the light-switch, Lighthouse. It would heretical only if one divorces Her from Her human element/attribute, splitting Her in two, where the words the Church make reference only to Her Divine Eternal Truth. As I said prior, when speaking of the Church and error/unorthodoxy/heresy it is referencing Her human element/attribute.

Please provide the source for this "human element" attribute that appears to allow the Church (as you understand it...two elements) to be in error in Faith and morals.

Also, if Arians were heretics, they simply were not Catholics. Surely there was plenty of confusion at that time, but even so, a heretic is severed from the Church by definition. Don't you understand that?

LM · « **Reply #104 on:** March 07, 2011, 06:20:46 PM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: LM
Quote from: Lighthouse
Quote from: LM
Error(s) born in the mind of Arius engulfed the Church to such an extent that it is valid and not heretical to say that the majority of the Church was Arian

It is not valid, and it is heretical.

Turn on the light-switch, Lighthouse. It would heretical only if one divorces Her from Her human element/attribute, splitting Her in two, where the words the Church make reference only to Her Divine Eternal Truth. As I said prior, when speaking of the Church and error/unorthodoxy/heresy it is referencing Her human element/attribute.

Please provide the source for this "human element" attribute that appears to allow the Church (as you understand it...two elements) to be in error in Faith and morals.

Also, if Arians were heretics, they simply were not Catholics. Surely there was plenty of confusion at that time, but even so, a heretic is severed from the Church by definition. Don't you understand that?

You mean you've never heard of the two natures of the Church. That She is both human (human element) and Divine. You seem to be making yourself purposely obtuse in this matter.

As to the Arians, prior to the Council of Nicea, should those who fought Arianism, instead have been "at peace etc" and waited until the Council condemned Arius and his heresy.

Quote from: SJB

Jehanne wants things to be be condemned that are not condemned (and may never be.) Until they are condemned, he must be at peace with his fellow Catholics.