Author Topic: Father Kramer to the Feeneyites (Read 29735 times)

Ambrose · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2014, 05:57:48 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Ambrose just showing how he defends the heretical belief that No Sacrament At All is necessary for salvation - it's like he needs his fix or something.

Please note that Ambrose, like Fr. Kramer and all other NSAAers, cannot bring themselves to defend any sacrament - and it is particularly impossible for them to defend the necessity of the sacrament of baptism unto salvation as they no not believe they are necessary for anything at all.

Trent's catechism teaches the reason for this is because Ambrose and all NSAAers despise the sacraments.

No, just defending the Catholoc Faith, whole and entire. You think that you can deny an article of Faith and be saved, but you at wrong. I hope for your sake that God will forgive your ignorance of Catholic Teaching.

To deny Baptism of Desire is to deny a de fide teaching of the Church, and is heresy.

JoeZ · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2014, 06:15:13 PM »

Father Kramer is then, of necessity, arguing that forced baptisms are efficacious to salvation. When speaking of adults (because the referneced canon is concerning the baptism of the impious), if either the water or desire separate from each other is enough to save, making desire alone enough to save, then necessarily water alone saves despite the will.

God bless,
JoeZ

Ambrose · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2014, 07:32:46 PM »

Quote from: JoeZ

Father Kramer is then, of necessity, arguing that forced baptisms are efficacious to salvation. When speaking of adults (because the referneced canon is concerning the baptism of the impious), if either the water or desire separate from each other is enough to save, making desire alone enough to save, then necessarily water alone saves despite the will.

God bless,
JoeZ

Baptism of Desire has been carefully explained by the theologians over and over again.

JoeZ · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2014, 10:09:14 PM »

Quote from: Ambrose

Quote from: JoeZ
Father Kramer is then, of necessity, arguing that forced baptisms are efficacious to salvation. When speaking of adults (because the referneced canon is concerning the baptism of the impious), if either the water or desire separate from each other is enough to save, making desire alone enough to save, then necessarily water alone saves despite the will.

God bless,
JoeZ

Baptism of Desire has been carefully explained by the theologians over and over again.

With all due respect, dear Ambrose, that is not an answer to my position.

Please ask yourself why you will not answer this directly. One should never fear argument when he is on the side of truth because truth has the advantage of being supported by God.

God bless,
JoeZ

PS When the honestly mistaken man sees the truth, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest.

Ambrose · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2014, 11:08:13 PM »

Quote from: JoeZ

Quote from: Ambrose
Quote from: JoeZ
Father Kramer is then, of necessity, arguing that forced baptisms are efficacious to salvation. When speaking of adults (because the referneced canon is concerning the baptism of the impious), if either the water or desire separate from each other is enough to save, making desire alone enough to save, then necessarily water alone saves despite the will.

God bless,
JoeZ

Baptism of Desire has been carefully explained by the theologians over and over again.

With all due respect, dear Ambrose, that is not an answer to my position.

Please ask yourself why you will not answer this directly. One should never fear argument when he is on the side of truth because truth has the advantage of being supported by God.

God bless,
JoeZ

PS When the honestly mistaken man sees the truth, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest.

Can you quote Fr. Kramer as saying that forced baptisms are efficacious to salvation. I have never read any such idea from him.

I was not dodging your question, rather urging you to pick up an approved theology manual and begin learning.