Author Topic: Father Kramer to the Feeneyites (Read 29742 times)

Ambrose · « **on:** May 21, 2014, 01:38:44 PM »

Posted on Facebook, April 27, 2014

Father Kramer wrote:

Quote

TO ALL FEENEYITES:

Your disagreement with the infallibly defined doctrine of Baptism of Desire is as irrational as it is heretical. You have no excuse: Justification takes place by the laver of regeneration or the desire of it ("aut ejus voto"). The doctrine is interpreted in that sense officially in the Roman Catechism. The doctrine of baptism by "votum" is explained in the Roman Catechism by authotity of the pope who presided over the latter sessions of the Council of Trent and formulated by the most eminent Council Fathers of Trent, namely, St. Charles Borromeo. Do you disagree with their undertanding of the expression "aut ejus voto" -- of them who formulated and ratified the Decree on Justification? Do you disagree with all the popes and doctors who understood the Decree as clearly teaching Baptism of Desire? Are you aware that Vatican I defined under penalty of «anathema» that you must understand the dogmas as the Church has understood and understands them? The Church has always understood and understands the dogma in question to mean "without the laver of regeneration or the desire of it" The Church has always understood and transmitted the clearly expressed doctrine of the Decree on Justification that those who die justified and sanctified by baptism "or the desire of it" inherit eternal life -- yet you disagree with the constant teaching of the Church on this point of dogma. Are you aware that just because the word «aut» can sometimes mean "and" as well as "or" is absolutely of no consequence here? The term "votum" is always employed in reference to the fulfillment of some future deed or duty, and therefore cannot be correctly translated in this context as "the laver of regeneration and the desire of it"; as if one being baptized at present could absurdly have the simultaneous desire to receive it at some time in the future. Your disagrerment is a direct denial of an infallibly defined teaching of the Council of Trent, and of the infallible teaching of the ordinary magisterium. By your obstinate denial of the defined dogma, you place yourself under the «anathema» (Canon 33 Decree on Justification) and outside the Church.

Cantarella · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2014, 01:47:32 PM »

We need not Fr. Kramer to interpret for us after 2000 years, the infallible Church teaching on EENS. The denial of "Extra Eccleasiam Nulla Salus" is a novelty. Fr. Kramer is far from being the binding authority of the Church. Truth is there is absolutely no salvation for any human being outside actual baptized membership in the Roman Catholic Church.

With all due respect, and out of genuine curiosity, what is behind all the anti-feeneyite agenda of the CMRI?

Ambrose · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2014, 01:50:38 PM »

Quote from: Cantarella

We need not Fr. Kramer to interpret for us after 2000 years, the infallible Church teaching on EENS. Fr. Kramer is far from being the binding authority of the Church. Truth is there is absolutely no salvation for any human being outside actual baptized membership in the Roman Catholic Church.

With all due respect, Ambrose and out of genuine curiosity, what is behind all the anti-feeneyite agenda of the CMRI?

You should ask them, I am not a member of the CMRI.

My guess though, is that as Catholics we have a duty to defend the Faith from heresy. The denial of Baptism of Desire is a dangerous modern heresy and Catholics must stand against it.

Cantarella · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2014, 02:11:33 PM »

Perhaps it is because CMRI fervently adheres to the Suprema haec sacra letter published which in 1949 against Fr. Leonard Feeney. This letter teaches salvation for non-Catholics (this is non-members of the Body of Christ) via “implicit” baptism of desire, and invincible ignorance.

Also, CMRI twice published in their Quarterly Magazine an article entitled, “The Salvation of Those Outside the Church.” It was published in the Winter 1992 issue of The Reign of Mary, The CMRI’s publication.

Does someone have a link for said article? It would be a most delightful read!

The article is supposed to indicate that those who die as non-Catholics can be saved, which is a heretical rejection of Catholic dogma. This article is not the only one. CMRI has published other pamphlets defending Baptism of "Desire" and salvation for those outside the visible Church.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2014, 02:19:16 PM »

Coming from someone who thinks that Benedict is still the pope because Francis is guilty of the same heresy regarding the Jews that Benedict also held. Go figure.