CathInfo.com

The person who quoted me above seems to believe he has won a victory over the truth that baptism of desire and baptism of blood are in fact heresies.  I did not concede baptism of desire or baptism of blood.  My words have been presented out of context, and blatantly so.  Here is what was said and how I responded:

Quote

But your argument fails because it does not address the fact that God can without injustice act outside of His sacraments.

Yes He can, but for this one sacrament He closed the door.

This is not to suggest that I believe a person can receive the grace of all other sacraments without actually receiving the sacrament.

I do not believe a person can have Holy Orders of desire for example.  Nor do I believe a person can receive Confirmation of desire.

Also note that these two sacraments (Holy Orders and Confirmation) share something in common with the sacrament of Baptism.  They confer a character, and cannot be repeated without sacrilege.

I am interested to see if anybody will try to argue that a person can have Holy Orders of desire or Confirmation of desire.  If they will not argue this, why not?  And if they still believe in baptism of desire, why, when it is 'built' the same way as Holy Orders and Confirmation?  Why, when it is not 'built' like Penance and the Eucharist, which are both repeatable and DO NOT confer a character?

And I still want to know how the heretics will explain away this:

Baptism of desire says that a person can get into heaven without the baptismal character, which identifies them as a Christian.

Baptism of desire says that a person can get into heaven without being having passed through the gateway to the other sacraments, and therefore be in heaven, yet not be permitted to receive absolution for sins or to partake of the body and blood of Jesus Christ!

Belief in baptism of desire suggests that a person may somehow enter the Catholic Church without ever receiving the sacrament of Baptism.  This means that the person SHOULD be allowed access to the sacraments.  If they are not allowed access to the sacraments, why?

Belief in baptism of desire means that a person who received it will go to purgatory, since not all debt of temporal punishment is washed away, only to suffer without any hope of intercession from the Church Militant, because the centuries old Tradition of the Church PROHIBITS offering sacrifices for their souls.  This tradition would either be harmful to these souls, or baptism of desire is not true, which indeed it is not.

Holy Baptism holds the first place among all the sacraments, for

it is the gate of the spiritual life;

through IT we become members of Christ and of the body of the Church.

Since death came into the world through one person,

unless we are born again of water and the spirit,

WE CANNOT,

as Truth says,

enter the kingdom of heaven...

(elimination of exceptions anybody?)

The matter of this sacrament is true and natural water, either hot or cold. The form is: I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit.

Pope Eugene was talking about the SACRAMENT of Baptism and how WE CANNOT AS THE TRUTH SAYS enter heaven unless we receive the SACRAMENT of Baptism so as to be admitted to the spiritual life.

This heresy is like a stinky weed that was initially speculated about, inculpably, by holy people BEFORE it was infallibly rendered heretical; people today blindly believe in it despite the numerous MONUMENTAL contradictions it posits against the Extraordinary Magisterium they glibly claim to believe.

This people honoureth me with their lips: but their heart is far from me.

They argue that infidels can enter the Church before death through extraordinary (and of course supernatural) means.

Jackpot.