Author Topic: Effects of the Heresy of Denying Baptism of Desire (Read 33999 times)

SJB · « **Reply #20 on:** March 19, 2014, 11:04:14 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: SJB
Are you really that stupid, Ladi? God has bound us thru HIS Church, yet God's grace is not bound by the Sacraments. That does not degrade the Sacraments or "bind" God to the Sacraments.

Again, SJB, you need a Logic 101 course.

If God has bound US in such a way that we cannot be saved without Sacramental Baptism, this doesn't mean that God IS BOUND. But this not change the fact that Sacramental Baptism is necessary for salvation, not because God IS BOUND, but because God HAS BOUND us to it. So the "God not being bound" argument simply does not apply to the question of whether the Sacraments are necessary for salvation. In fact, if you try to twist it backwards the way you do, you are HERETICALLY REJECTING THE NECESSITY OF THE SACRAMENTS FOR SALVATION AS TAUGHT BY TRENT. So you need to dump this stupid argument ASAP. That's why I said that it was heretical when Ambrose used it.

Well Ladi, you are a moron because NOBODY teaches this. You simply made it up.

Yes, God has bound us yet He is not bound. HIS acceptance of perfect contrition does not "unbind" us.

Again, start providing some sources or SHUT UP.

Cantarella · « **Reply #21 on:** March 19, 2014, 11:41:34 AM »

Quote from: andysloan

To Ladislaus/Canterella/Bowler

You can take the following "private revelation" with you to your individual judgements and tell Christ "I honestly did not believe it"!

"In the Side, where she knew the fire of divine Charity, and so, if you remember well, My Truth manifested to you, when you asked, saying: ’Sweet and Immaculate Lamb, You were dead when Your side was opened. Why then did You want to be struck and have Your heart divided?’ And He replied to you, telling you that there was occasion enough for it; but the principal part of what He said I will tell you. He said: Because My desire towards the human generation was ended, and I had finished the actual work of bearing pain and torment, and yet I had not been able to show, by finite things, because My love was infinite, how much more love I had, I wished you to see the secret of the Heart, showing it to you open, so that you might see how much more I loved than I could show you by finite pain. I poured from it Blood and Water, to show you the baptism of water, which is received in virtue of the Blood. I also showed the baptism of love in two ways, first in those who are baptized in their blood, shed for Me, which has virtue through My Blood, even if they have not been able to have Holy Baptism, and also in those who are baptized in fire, not being able to have Holy Baptism, but desiring it with the affection of love. There is no baptism of fire without the Blood, because the Blood is steeped in and kneaded with the fire of Divine charity, because, through love was It shed. There is yet another way by which the soul receives the baptism of Blood, speaking, as it were, under a figure, and this way the Divine charity provided, knowing the infirmity and fragility of man, through which he offends, not that he is obliged, through his fragility and infirmity, to commit sin unless he wish to do so; but, falling, as he will, into the guilt of mortal sin, by which he loses the grace which he drew from Holy Baptism in virtue of the Blood, it was necessary to leave a continual baptism of Blood. This the Divine charity provided in the Sacrament of Holy Confession, the soul receiving the Baptism of Blood, with contrition of heart, confessing, when able, to My ministers, who hold the keys of the Blood, sprinkling It, in absolution, upon the face of the soul. But, if the soul be unable to confess, contrition of heart is sufficient for this baptism, the hand of My clemency giving you the fruit of this precious Blood. But if you are able to confess, I wish you to do so, and if you are able to, and do not, you will be deprived of the fruit of the Blood. It is true that, in the last extremity, a man, desiring to confess and not being able to, will receive the fruit of this baptism, of which I have been speaking." ~The Dialogue of St. Catherine of Siena

Matthew 8:11-12

"And I say to you that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven: But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

No Catholic is obliged to believe private revelation. In fact, we're cautioned about them. What weight has this paragraph attributed to St Catherine Siena with the following Divine Church dogmatic statement:

"“The Holy Roman Church believes, professes, and preaches that no one remaining outside the Catholic Church, not just pagans, but also Jews or heretics or schismatics, can become partakers of eternal life; but they will go to the ‘everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt.25:41), unless before the end of life they are joined to the Church. For union with the body of Christ is of such importance that the sacraments of the Church are helpful to salvation only for those remaining in it; and fasts, almsgiving, other works of piety, and the exercise of Christian warfare bear eternal rewards for them alone. And no one can be saved, no matter how much alms he has given, even if he sheds his blood for the name of Christ, unless he remains in the bosom and unity of the Church”

Again, Any one who says that we must interpret or understand the meaning of a dogmatic definition, in a way which contradicts its actual wording, is denying the whole point of Infallibility and dogmatic definitions. Also, those who insist that infallible DEFINITIONS must be interpreted by non-infallible statements (e.g., from theologians, catechisms, etc.) are denying the whole purpose of the Chair of Peter. They are subordinating the Heavenly dogmatic teaching to the re-evaluation of fallible humans thereby inverting their authority.

andysloan · « **Reply #22 on:** March 19, 2014, 12:07:29 PM »

To Cantarella,

Your response is yet another willful misinterpretation of BOD, which confers the Catholic faith.

Romans 6:17

"But thanks be to God, that you were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart, unto that form of doctrine, into which you have been delivered."

Your defense is about pride and not truth; about wanting to be superior to others and not in a communion of love with them in Christ.

You, Bowler et al are truly as described by Our Lady of La Salette:

"The true faith to the Lord having been forgotten, each individual will want to be on his own and be superior to people of same identity"

And to reject the revelations given to St Catherine, be that they are private revelation, is not an act of prudence but an act of malice:

As St Paul states:

Galatians 1:8

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema."

...and so you are all held - a disgrace on earth and in heaven!

Stubborn · « **Reply #23 on:** March 19, 2014, 12:15:08 PM »

Quote from: andysloan

To Cantarella,

Your response is yet another willful misinterpretation of BOD, which confers the Catholic faith.

Romans 6:17

"But thanks be to God, that you were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart, unto that form of doctrine, into which you have been delivered."

Your defense is about pride and not truth; about wanting to be superior to others and not in a communion of love with them in Christ.

You, Bowler et al are truly as described by Our Lady of La Salette:

"The true faith to the Lord having been forgotten, each individual will want to be on his own and be superior to people of same identity"

And to reject the revelations given to St Catherine, be that they are private revelation, is not an act of prudence but an act of malice:

As St Paul states:

Galatians 1:8

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema."

...and so you are all held - a disgrace on earth and in heaven!

Are you a student of Vetus Ordo?
He was a staunch Trad who thought he could interpret Scripture too - - he is now fully prot. - which is where you're heading if you're not already one.

Cantarella · « **Reply #24 on:** March 19, 2014, 12:19:36 PM »

Protestant - style Bible quoting, entirely out of context and from an individual interpretation point, provide little contribution to the discussed topic.