Author Topic: CI BODers Think in a Vacuum (Read 17355 times)

Stubborn · « **Reply #165 on:** March 05, 2014, 08:42:59 AM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Sunbeam
Your attempt to insinuate your definition into Canon IV of the Council of Trent’s Decree on the Sacraments, has already been condemned by Pope Pius IV in the following words:

“Furthermore, in order to avoid the perversion and confusion which might arise, if each one were allowed, as he might think fit, to publish his own commentaries and interpretations on the decrees of the Council; We, by apostolic authority, forbid all men, as well ecclesiastics, of whatsoever order, condition, and rank they may be, as also laymen, with whatsoever honour and power invested ; prelates, to wit, under pain of being interdicted from entering the church, and all others whomsoever they be, under pain of excommunication incurred by the fact, to presume, without our authority, to publish, in any form, any commentaries, glosses, annotations, scholia, or any kind of interpretation whatsoever of the decrees of the said Council; or to settle anything in regard thereof, under any plea whatsoever, even under pretext of greater corroboration of the decrees, or the more perfect execution thereof, or under any other colour whatsoever.”

Ref: “Bull of Confirmation of the Council of Trent.” The canons and decrees of the sacred and oecuмenical Council of Trent, Ed. and trans. J. Waterworth (London: Dolman, 1848), p.288.

Stubborn denies there are ANY authoritative and approved commentaries or interpretations, as he believes it may be only "read as written." Of course, it is his reading "as written" that he adheres to, rejecting all authorities. He is a Protestant at heart, blinded in his lack of faith.

Hard to imagine ignorance like yours.

You and BODers are the guilty one who pervert and confuse the decrees of the council with your commentaries and interpretations - which Pope Pius IV condemns.

Don't you see your own hypocrisy in that you clearly understand papal docuмents even though you wrongfully think they do not apply to you - but you prove that you do understand what the decrees teaches - and you reject what the decrees teach.

The fact is that anti-BODers do not interpret the decrees, they repeat them.
The fact is that BODers are the ones who MUST interpret the decrees in order to even come up with a BOD.

bowler · « **Reply #166 on:** March 05, 2014, 10:55:08 AM »

Sunbeam and SJB debate about baptism of desire & blood of the catechumen and what Trent teaches, but they totally deny what Trent teaches, in their belief that anyone can be saved even if they have no explicit desire to be baptized, or Catholics, or martyrs for Christ, or even believe in Christ at all.

As a matter of fact you can replace Trent above with the Fathers, Doctors, and Saints, the Catechism of Trent that BODers also quote and then deny.

Is that not dishonesty, hypocrisy?

The BODer first believes that everyone who is "good" in their eyes can be saved. From there he "learns" what he desires to confirm himself in his desired belief. That is why I have only met ONE BODer that restricted his belief in BOD to the catechumen. It is not that they learn about the catechumen and then go expanding it to everyone that is good, IT IS the other way around like I said: The BODer first believes that everyone who is "good" in their eyes can be saved, and then USES BOD of the catechumen.

Sunbeam · « **Reply #167 on:** March 05, 2014, 03:45:55 PM »

Quote from: Bowler

Sunbeam and SJB debate about baptism of desire & blood of the catechumen and what Trent teaches, but they totally deny what Trent teaches, in their belief that anyone can be saved even if they have no explicit desire to be baptized, or Catholics, or martyrs for Christ, or even believe in Christ at all.

= Calumnious straw man argument.

Cantarella · « **Reply #168 on:** March 05, 2014, 03:53:24 PM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Straight forward question:

Is here a single BODer that doesn't believe also in " invincible ignorance "?,

:jumping2:

bowler · « **Reply #169 on:** March 05, 2014, 07:43:13 PM »

Quote from: Sunbeam

Quote from: Bowler
Sunbeam and SJB debate about baptism of desire & blood of the catechumen and what Trent teaches, but they totally deny what Trent teaches, in their belief that anyone can be saved even if they have no explicit desire to be baptized, or Catholics, or martyrs for Christ, or even believe in Christ at all.

= Calumnious straw man argument.

We are not discussing here baptism of desire or blood of the catechumen, so I must assume that what you are defending is Heroin BOD, "salvation by no desire to be a Catholic or belief in Christ" (what is called salvation by implicit faith in Christ, implicit because the person believes in a god that rewards). It's obvious that that is what you are doing in continuing to come onto these threads about salvation by implicit faith in Christ.

The Catholic that is open to the remote possibility of BOD for catechumens only - as fallible Church teaching - would not waste any time defending it. It's obvious that the BODers here are defending Heroin BOD.