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Author Topic: Miraculous Baptisms  (Read 113583 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Miraculous Baptisms
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2025, 04:51:18 PM »
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  • How badly did they mess with Pius X's catechism? Jeepers.

    So, if you read up on it -- there's an article in an old "The Angelus" by one of the Fr. Duvergers (can't recall) where he says it's a misnomer to call the 1912 Catechism the "Catechism of St. Pius X".  What he actually did was to take an only one from the 1700s for the Diocese of Piedmont ... and he set up a commission to revise it, so it was not an expansion of the little one that he himself hard personally written, even though that's the popular misconception.  But, that on there has one question about BoD, allegedly, whereas other editions have two or three.  There's one which says that people who have the right dispositions are "on the WAY of salvation", but doesn't say they would be saved if they died on the way.  But, even with the 1912 one, if you dig around, and I've dispatched various AI tools to go hunting for it, you can't actually find one from 1912.  You have these "reprints" from the 1950sa, 1930s, and the earliest one that I could find was from 1920.  They're labeled reprints, but you can find changes being snuck into them.

    Now, there was a poster here some years ago who did manage to locate a copy put up by some museum in Italy where they were the purported originals, and there were photos of the contents ... and that version conspiculously lacked the BoD passage.

    Basically, when St. Pius X died, they couldn't get rid of him fast enough.  He was despised by all the Modernists, and there were many.  His body was still warm when his successor had already dissolved the Sodalitium, which had been absolution essential, and they railroaded Cardinal Merry del Val ... and got rid of all St. Pius X's "chosen" post haste.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #46 on: November 21, 2025, 04:57:33 PM »
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  • There's something similar out there, not only in St. Pius X, but the Dimond Brothers point out the same thing in Dr. Ludwig Ott.

    One question in the Catechism (which version I know not) asks "Is the Sacrament of Baptism necessary for salvation?", and the answer is that it's ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation.  Next question then gives exceptions?  Absolutely does not admit of exceptions.  Ott does the same thing in his book.

    We can see either tamperring taking place, or else, in the case of Ott, cognitive dissonance of some kind.

    But you can find 1950s editions of the "St. Pius X Catechism" that still purport to be the same thing, but they're significantly transformed.


    Online WorldsAway

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #47 on: November 21, 2025, 05:33:14 PM »
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  • Quote
    Trent, Decree on Justification

    CHAPTER VII.
    What the justification of the impious is, and what are the causes thereof.
     
    This disposition, or preparation, is followed by Justification itself, which is not remission of sins merely, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man, through the voluntary reception of the grace, and of the gifts, whereby man of unjust becomes just, and of an enemy a friend, that so he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting.

    Of this Justification the causes are these: the final cause indeed is the glory of God and of Jesus Christ, and life everlasting; while the efficient cause is a merciful God who washes and sanctifies gratuitously, signing, and anointing with the holy Spirit of promise, who is the pledge of our inheritance; but the meritorious cause is His most beloved only-begotten, our Lord Jesus Christ, who, when we were enemies, for the exceeding charity wherewith he loved us, merited Justification for us by His most holy Passion on the wood of the cross, and made satisfaction for us unto God the Father; the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which (faith) no man was ever justified; lastly, the alone formal cause is the justice of God, not that whereby He Himself is just, but that whereby He maketh us just, that, to wit, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and we are not only reputed, but are truly called, and are, just, receiving justice within us, each one according to his own measure, which the Holy Ghost distributes to every one as He wills, and according to each one’s proper disposition and co-operation. For, although no one can be just, but he to whom the merits of the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ are communicated, yet is this done in the said justification of the impious, when by the merit of that same most holy Passion, the charity of God is poured forth, by the Holy Spirit, in the hearts of those that are justified, and is inherent therein: whence, man, through Jesus Christ, in whom he is ingrafted, receives, in the said justification, together with the remission of sins, all these (gifts) infused at once, faith, hope, and charity. For faith, unless hope and charity be added thereto, neither unites man perfectly with Christ, nor makes him a living member of His body. For which reason it is most truly said, that Faith without works is dead and profitless; and, In Christ Jesus neither circuмcision, availeth anything, nor uncircuмcision, but faith which worketh by charity. This faith, Catechumen’s beg of the Church-agreeably to a tradition of the apostles-previously to the sacrament of Baptism; when they beg for the faith which bestows life everlasting, which, without hope and charity, faith cannot bestow: whence also do they immediately hear that word of Christ; If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Wherefore, when receiving true and Christian justice, they are bidden, immediately on being born again, to preserve it pure and spotless, as the first robe given them through Jesus Christ in lieu of that which [Page 36] Adam, by his disobedience, lost for himself and for us, that so they may bear it before the judgment-seat of our Lord Jesus Christ, and may have life everlasting.

    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Tarmac Turkey

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 02:55:42 PM »
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  • From THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

    An international work of reference on the constitution, doctrine, discipline, and history of the Catholic Church

    1913

    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 05:22:26 PM »
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  • Quote
    Trent, Decree on Justification

    CHAPTER VII.
    What the justification of the impious is, and what are the causes thereof.
     
    This disposition, or preparation, is followed by Justification itself, which is not remission of sins merely, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man, through the voluntary reception of the grace, and of the gifts, whereby man of unjust becomes just, and of an enemy a friend, that so he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting.

    Of this Justification the causes are these: the final cause indeed is the glory of God and of Jesus Christ, and life everlasting; while the efficient cause is a merciful God who washes and sanctifies gratuitously, signing, and anointing with the holy Spirit of promise, who is the pledge of our inheritance; but the meritorious cause is His most beloved only-begotten, our Lord Jesus Christ, who, when we were enemies, for the exceeding charity wherewith he loved us, merited Justification for us by His most holy Passion on the wood of the cross, and made satisfaction for us unto God the Father; the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which (faith) no man was ever justified; lastly, the alone formal cause is the justice of God, not that whereby He Himself is just, but that whereby He maketh us just, that, to wit, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and we are not only reputed, but are truly called, and are, just, receiving justice within us, each one according to his own measure, which the Holy Ghost distributes to every one as He wills, and according to each one’s proper disposition and co-operation. For, although no one can be just, but he to whom the merits of the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ are communicated, yet is this done in the said justification of the impious, when by the merit of that same most holy Passion, the charity of God is poured forth, by the Holy Spirit, in the hearts of those that are justified, and is inherent therein: whence, man, through Jesus Christ, in whom he is ingrafted, receives, in the said justification, together with the remission of sins, all these (gifts) infused at once, faith, hope, and charity. For faith, unless hope and charity be added thereto, neither unites man perfectly with Christ, nor makes him a living member of His body. For which reason it is most truly said, that Faith without works is dead and profitless; and, In Christ Jesus neither circuмcision, availeth anything, nor uncircuмcision, but faith which worketh by charity. This faith, Catechumen’s beg of the Church-agreeably to a tradition of the apostles-previously to the sacrament of Baptism; when they beg for the faith which bestows life everlasting, which, without hope and charity, faith cannot bestow: whence also do they immediately hear that word of Christ; If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Wherefore, when receiving true and Christian justice, they are bidden, immediately on being born again, to preserve it pure and spotless, as the first robe given them through Jesus Christ in lieu of that which [Page 36] Adam, by his disobedience, lost for himself and for us, that so they may bear it before the judgment-seat of our Lord Jesus Christ, and may have life everlasting.


    Whoever wrote this at Trent must have been looking at this very Scripture passage when he wrote it.

    24 The day after that, they reached Caesarea, where Cornelius was awaiting them; he had gathered his kinsmen and his closest friends about him. 25 And as soon as Peter had entered, he was met by Cornelius, who fell at his feet and did reverence to him; 26 but Peter raised him; Stand up, he said, I am a man like thyself. 27 So he went in, still conversing with him, and found a great company assembled. 28 You know well enough, he told them, that a Jew is contaminated if he consorts with one of another race, or visits him; but God has been shewing me that we ought not to speak of any man as profane or unclean; 29 and so, when I was sent for, I came without demur. Tell me then, why you have sent for me. 30 And Cornelius said, Three days ago, at this very time, I was making my afternoon prayer in my house,[4] when suddenly I saw a man standing before me, in white clothes, 31 who said to me, Cornelius, thy prayer has been heard, thy almsdeeds have won remembrance in God’s sight. 32 Thou art to send to Joppa, and summon thence that Simon who is also called Peter; he is lodging with a tanner called Simon, close to the sea.[5] 33 I lost no time, therefore, in sending for thee, and thou hast done me a favour in coming. Now thou seest us assembled in thy presence, ready to listen to whatever charge the Lord has given thee.

    34 Thereupon Peter began speaking; I see clearly enough, he said, that God makes no distinction between man and man; 35 he welcomes anybody, whatever his race, who fears him and does what piety demands. 36 God has sent his word to the sons of Israel, giving them news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37 You have heard the story, a story which ran through the whole of Judaea, though it began in Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed; 38 about Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power, so that he went about doing good, and curing all those who were under the devil’s tyranny, with God at his side. 39 We are witnesses of all he did in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem. And they killed him, hanging him on a gibbet; 40 but on the third day God raised him up again, and granted the clear sight of him, 41 not to the people at large, but to us, the witnesses whom God had appointed beforehand; we ate and drank in his company after his rising from the dead. 42 And he gave us a commission to preach to the people, and to bear witness that he, and none other, has been chosen by God to judge the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets bear him this testimony, that everyone who has faith in him is to find remission of sins through his name. 

    44 Before Peter had finished speaking to them thus, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to his message.[6] 45 The faithful who had come over with Peter, holding to the tradition of circuмcision as they did, were astonished to find that the free gift of the Holy Spirit could be lavished upon the Gentiles, 46 whom they heard speaking with tongues, and proclaiming the greatness of God. 47 Then Peter said openly, Who will grudge us the water for baptizing these men, that have received the Holy Spirit just as we did? 48 And he gave orders that they should be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And after this, they asked him to stay on some days with them.



    Notice how the scene unfolds with the events illustrating the doctrine being set out. A couple of thing to keep in mind; God does not require an instrumental cause, the Apostles were confirmed directly by the Holy Ghost without chrism or a minister. Secondly, a person is considered a chatechumen when they resolve to embrace the Faith.
    These Catechumens are sanctified directly by the Holy Ghost before water baptism and after the Ascension.

    Here's a canonized BoB Saint I found, I'll keep looking for more.


    Jan 7th, At Melitene in ancient Armenia, Saint Polyeuctus, martyr: as a soldier, forced by the edict of Emperor Decius to sacrifice to the gods, he tore the statues to pieces and for this he suffered many torments, until he was beheaded and baptized in his own blood.



    Online WorldsAway

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    Re: Miraculous Baptisms
    « Reply #50 on: Yesterday at 06:28:00 PM »
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  • Whoever wrote this at Trent must have been looking at this very Scripture passage when he wrote it.

    24 The day after that, they reached Caesarea, where Cornelius was awaiting them;



    Here's a canonized BoB Saint I found, I'll keep looking for more.


    Jan 7th, At Melitene in ancient Armenia, Saint Polyeuctus, martyr: as a soldier, forced by the edict of Emperor Decius to sacrifice to the gods, he tore the statues to pieces and for this he suffered many torments, until he was beheaded and baptized in his own blood.
    In depth video and article regarding Cornelius:



    vatican catholic.com/speaking-in-tongues-baptism-holy-spirit/

    This is apparently the English translation of the Acts of St. Polyeuctus, written by Symeon Metaphrastes in the 10th century  (~700 years after St. Polyeuctus):

    (Emphasis mine)

    Quote
    Whilst the Christians, especially those in the East, were suffering persecution under the Emperors Decius and Valerian, there were two men very friendly, Polyeuctus and Nearchus by name. Now Nearchus was a Christian, but Polyeuctus was a heathen. But when Decius and Valerian could not be satiated with the blood of the saints, they issued an edict that those Christians who would sacrifice to the gods, should be favored by the majesty of the empire, but that those who refused should be cruelly punished. Which things being heard, Nearchus, who desired to be dissolved and to be with Christ, lamented because his comrade, whom he loved as a second self, would be left in peril of eternal damnation.
    Going therefore to his friend, Polyeuctus, he announced to him that on the morrow their friendship must come to an end. And when he answered that death alone could terminate this, Nearchus said, "You speak the truth, we are about to be separated by death." And he showed him the imperial edict. Then Polyeuctus narrated to Nearchus how Christ had appeared to him in vision, and had taken off his dirty vestment, together with his military harness, and had thrown over him a gorgeous silk robe, linking it at his shoulder with a golden brooch, and had mounted him on a winged horse. Hearing this, Nearchus was glad, and having expounded the vision, and instructed Polyeuctus more fully in the faith, his friend believed perfectly, and began to thirst for martyrdom.
    Now when Polyeuctus declared himself openly to be a Christian, and rebuked idolatry, being tried by the persecutors, he was for a long time tortured. And when he had been a long while scourged with rods, the tormentors were weary, and endeavored to persuade him with bland speeches and promises, to return to the worship of the gods. But he, remaining immovable in the confession of the Lord, and deriding them, was more furiously beaten.
    Then came his wife and only son, and she filled the place with her cries, and held out to him his son, alleging his marriage ties, with many tears and sighs, and labored to call the saint from martyrdom, by the thoughts of his son, of his wealth, and of his friends. But he, divinely inspired, could not be separated from Christ by any temptations, but all the more exhorted his wife to desert her idols and believe in Christ.
    Now when the governors saw that the constancy of the martyr was not to be shaken, they pronounced capital sentence against him. And when the martyr heard this, he gave thanks, and praising God, was led to the place of execution, confirming the faithful with his holy exhortations, so that not a few of the unbelievers were converted. Then, turning to the Blessed Nearchus, he announced to him that he should follow him according to mutual agreement; and bidding him farewell, died a glorious death.

    Now, this account does not say he was baptized in his blood, but I do not doubt other accounts do.

    As has already been mentioned in this thread, a Christian, baptised in water, being martyred was sometimes referred to as having a "second baptism", or being "baptised in blood". Because martyrdom wipes away all punishment due to sin, like the Sacrament of Baptism. Just because those phrases are used does not necessarily mean A)the martyr was unbaptized and B)that the person who wrote them was even implying the saint was unbaptized

    However, what I would really like to point out is what I bolded in the Acts of St. Polyeuctus. This is something that can be seen for pretty much any Saint who allegedly received BOD or BOB

    Nearchus, Polyeuctus' friend, lamented because he (Nearchus) longed to be martyred..but that would mean leaving Polyeuctus, who would be damned as a pagan.

    Providentially, Nearchus has the notion to go to Polyeuctus to renounce his friendship with the pagan..but Polyeuctus recounts that he had vision of Christ! Nearchus explains the vision to him, instructs him in the faith, and Polyeuctus believes the faith!

    Now, remember, both Nearchus and Polyeuctus knew that Christians were being persecuted, especially so with the edict that was just declared by the Emperors. In times of persecution, Catechumens would be baptized without delay.

    Isn't that incredible? Nearchus, the baptised Christian, wishes to be martyred..and is just about to renounce his friendship with Polyeuctus (because he laments that Polyeuctus will be damned) when Polyeuctus reveals his vision of Christ, has the vision explained to him, is instructed in the faith, and believes! The dilemma that caused him to go to Polyeuctus was resolved just at the right moment in time! What are the odds of that? Slim to none, unless we account for Divine Providence. And what are the odds that they had a cup or bowl of water laying around. I'd say pretty darn good. 5 seconds, a handful of water, 18 words, and all of Nearchus' lamentations will be turned to joy. Both would become martyrs for the Faith, and would not be separated in death. The motive, means, and opportunity for the Sacrament of Baptism are all present, I think just as God planned. A miraculous baptism indeed
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.