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Author Topic: Apocatastasis  (Read 3393 times)

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Re: Apocatastasis
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2021, 12:24:55 PM »
This seems to be the core of Bishop Barron's 'dare we hope?' stuff.

Not a word on the later condemnation of apocatastasis.
Barron is a modernist as we can see. I would pursue the source and flavour of his modernist influences. Better the devil you know vs don’t know, and in spiritual combat we need to know what the enemy field Marshalls are up to.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Apocatastasis
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2021, 12:50:35 PM »
God is merciful AND Just.

Yes, but all at the same time.  There isn't this merciful side of God and then his just side.



Offline Yeti

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Re: Apocatastasis
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2021, 01:14:01 PM »
Here's how I look at hell.  I actually believe that the fires of hell are in fact nothing other than the burning pain caused by the love of God in those who refuse to accept it.
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This idea is very popular with the modernists, Ladislaus. I'd be wary of that one.
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Here's what Fr. Ludwig Ott has to say in his excellent work, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:
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Quote
The fire of hell was conceived by individual Fathers such as Origen and St. Gregory of Nyssa, and by later Theologians, like Ambrosius Catharinus, J.A. Mohler and H. Klee, in a metaphorical sense as a symbol for purely spiritual pains, especially for the torments of the gnawing of conscience. This opinion has not been formally condemned by the Church. [Wow, great endorsement!  :laugh1:] The majority of Fathers, the schoolmen and the majority of modern theologians believe it to be a physical fire, but stress the difference between this fire and ordinary fire. St. Thomas, following the precedent of St. Augustine and St. Gregory the Great, explains the effect of physical fire on a purely spiritual essence as a binding of the spirits to material fire, which acts as an instrument of the Divine penal justice. Through it the spirits are made subject to matter and hindered in their free movement.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Apocatastasis
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2021, 01:22:53 PM »
"As Our Lady spoke these last words, she opened her hands once more, as she had done during the two previous months. The rays of light seemed to penetrate the earth, and we saw as it were a sea of fire. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke now falling back on every side like sparks in huge fires, without weight or equilibrium, amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear..."  - Sr. Lucia


Offline Yeti

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Re: Apocatastasis
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2021, 01:45:51 PM »
"As Our Lady spoke these last words, she opened her hands once more, as she had done during the two previous months. The rays of light seemed to penetrate the earth, and we saw as it were a sea of fire. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke now falling back on every side like sparks in huge fires, without weight or equilibrium, amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear..."  - Sr. Lucia
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Yup. Pretty much this. It says nothing about being made to listen to music they don't like.