Stop slandering Father Bolduc.

And you stop slandering the Tuc line!     There seems to be a  few "bad apples" in the  trad movement these days, but they are not confined to the Tuc line.  There are others in the Lefebre line as well.

I'm not slandering him. Do you know what slander is? He went to Taylor for McDonough's ordination. I can't help that this is a fact.

Also, it is spelled THUC. I have no problem with clear, valid Thuc lines. I suggest you re-read about some of the issues surrounding the Thuc priests and bishops. I'm a big supporter, myself, of CMRI.

I'm well aware of the bad apples in other lines, just sticking to the subject here, which initially I provided reasons for staying away from the Taylor lines. They are good reasons, please point out the error in those reasons, if you find any. I would never want what happened to me, and others, to happen to anyone else unfortunate enough to be duped by Taylor and the SVM. Fr. Bolduc let this happen, and that is how I became involved, gaining painful knowldedge and experience along the way.

A second point that needs to be brought up is the hero worship of traditional clergy. When they do wrong, there is no mechanism for appeals, we can't turn a blind eye. We ourselves cannot let personal feeling blind us to them breaking the laws of the Church or getting involved with dubious characters, and a whole list of other things.

Traditional priests have their individual strong points, some are excellent confessors, others give good sermons, some are good with moral theology. On the flip side, some have no clue how to handle the crisis or as to their role in the function of the Church, they simply haven't studied it, and in some cases are just winging it. They make mistakes. You can't hide these kinds of mistakes behind your loyalty and personal feelings, they are serious matters.

You are getting emotional, you can't let your emotions rule you on this. It isn't going to fix the Church neither will it justify bad actions, even by those of good motive.

The Thuc line, even if the rumors are absolutely beyond the shadow of a doubt true, would still have supplied jurisdiction.

Archbishop Thuc was a devout, holy and learned man.  He acted when the Church went into apostasy.  

When a priest showed up and told him Our Lady wanted him to go to Spain, Archbishop Thuc did as he was told without a single second of delay.  This is a sign of  faithfulness that Our Lady will not forget.  Meanwhile, the rest of the church, allegedly with "jurisdiction" were looking for ways to downgrade Our Lady in every way imagineable.  

Supplied jurisdiction is a concept that is very valuable in these times of apostasy.  

How would we pass on the Catholic faith if every trad out there did as Pope Francis wanted them to?  

Phase I was Paul VI and the concilliarists destroying the liturgy.

Phase II was Benedict XVI mollycoddling the leftover trads into submission.

Phase III is Francis I raising the final bastions (the memory of the Holy Church prior to the revolution).  

After Francis, there was to be nothing left of the Catholic Church.

But Bishops and Priests of the Trad groups with supplied jurisdiction are going to ensure that future generations of Catholics have the Catholic faith to pass on to their children.  

No thanks to the novus ordites, but why be uncharitable?

Quote from: Guest

These bishops have supplied jurisdiction.

It's a sin, a grave sin, to constantly cast down on Traditional Catholic Bishops.

Are you retarded? In what diocese do they have supplied jurisdiction? How do they break up their territories? Are they making new ones? You know only the Church has the right to set up a diocese, right?

Secondly, many of these men are not bishops. It is a mortal sin to impersonate clergy.

This is exactly what the problem is with some grievous errors propagated openly by certain people all over the internet: it makes Catholics (especially converts) very vulnerable to charlatans like Taylor and Ryan Scott and sex-offenders like McCormack.

People should read John Lane's Bellarmine Forums to see what someone educated has to say about jurisdiction.

I can't understand how people think supplied jurisdiction (a concept so often misunderstood and used as cult propaganda by some) suffices to have a normal Catholic life: all the mess of the traddieland is proof that the contrary is quite true.

When a priest showed up and told him Our Lady wanted him to go to Spain, Archbishop Thuc did as he was told without a single second of delay.  This is a sign of  faithfulness that Our Lady will not forget.  Meanwhile, the rest of the church, allegedly with "jurisdiction" were looking for ways to downgrade Our Lady in every way imagineable.  

I won't comment on other aspects of Archbishop Thuc's life for I do know that he suffered immensely when his brother, Ngô Đình Diệm, the first president of South Vietnam, was murdered.

But my goodness, so a priest showed up to Archbishop Thuc stating that Our Lady wanted him to go to Spain, and Archbishop Thuc just went without even questioning if this was indeed from God?

Doesn't St. John say we must "test the spirits." That injunction to go to Spain was clearly not of God or of Our Lady because it led to the consecration of men who would later form the Palmarian "Church." How can you say that "Our Lady will not forget?" Seriously, where is the discernment? For whatever virtues Archbishop Thuc had, he lacked discernment in many things.

Quote from: Guest

Quote from: parentsfortruth

Quote from: Guest

Fr. Bolduc, in whose childhood home I have sat in and conversed with him, sent Richard McDonough to Taylor for ordination. McDonough ran the church Fr. Bolduc owned in New Hampshire and was his resident priest. As far as I know, McDonough never received conditional ordination from reliable bishop. Those are the true facts of the matter, but I'd be happy to know that a conditional ordination was done, as I really think Richard McDonough is a good and wonderful man, and I couldn't think more highly of him.

I'm not accusing him of sin, he was a good man, but he wasn't careful. Ask one of the nine who were in the SSPX at the same time, or even priests who knew him well. I got my information from both.

So you're saying that he sent Fr. McDounagh, the priest that he put charge over his very chapel, to "Bishop Taylor?" Fiddlesticks! I'm going to check this out myself.

You don't believe me that he was ordained by Taylor?

I have at least four former SSPX priests, one of which was the recipient of some of my research into the matter, who would affirm that this is true. I also have witnesses to Richard McDonough stating the same thing.

If you knew Father Bolduc so well, what kind of farm did he have?

The house on his property was built in 1789. He has a full silo of his antiques that he collected over the years. He owned many acres of land, and has many steam powered things. If crap had hit the fan when he was alive, he'd be able to survive better than most of us. He had bison, among other animals. I've never been out there, but he was my parish priest for more than 25 years. So... doubting I knew him well? I did.

I wasn't doubting, that was solely for my curiosity. He also had a collection of milk bottles in his living room. Richard's wife is buried behind the church across the street from his house. I'm very familiar with the situation in NH. Fr. Bolduc was a kind and hospitable man who loved the Faith.

I've done some digging myself, about Bishop Taylor, and I have no doubt he was validly consecrated, in fact, multiple times. Fr. Bolduc -was- careful.

Quote

Bishop Patrick Taylor was born and raised a Roman Catholic. He became dissatisfied with the changes of Vatican II and became an Orthodox priest. He later returned to the True Faith after being advised by an independent traditional Catholic bishop.

When he returned to the True Faith, he was already a validly ordained priest. He received episcopal ordination from Archbishop Michael Boucher, whose episcopal lineage is Old Catholic and Eastern Orthodox and recognized as valid because it was personally investigated by the late Cardinal Edouard Gagnon. Where is the proof for this? Docuмented evidence should be abundantly available.

One of the co-consecrators of Bishop Taylor was Archbishop Denis Garrison, an Eastern Orthodox bishop whose lineage is recognized by the Archdiocese of New York beginning with Cardinal Francis Spellman (1965) and later by Cardinal Terrence Cooke (1967). Again, where is the proof for this?[/color]

Though his episcopal lineage was recognized before and after Vatican II, Bishop Taylor sought conditional episcopal ordination in 2001 from Bishop Merril Adamson. Bishop Adamson is a Thuc-line whose lineage is from Bishop Christian Datessen, a Thuc-line bishop living in France. If his episcopal lineage was recognized before and after Vatican II then why did he get a conditional consecration done? Are the sacraments some play things? This is bizarre.

Bishop Taylor's validity was recently defended by Dr. Rama Coomaraswamy, a former SSPX seminary professor and one of the original members of the Society of St. Pius V (SSPV).

He was consecrated with the Traditional Rite of Episcopal Consecration. He uses an English translation of the Traditional Rite to confer Holy Orders. The Vatican to this day has a record of him, listing him as a bishop because the Holy See has kept records of independent bishops since the 1950s.

So as a bishop he now thinks it legitimate to make things up as he goes as in using an English translation of the Traditional Rite to confer Holy Orders? Even Novus Ordo dioceses do not do this. What is going on here?

Again, discernment is needed. Also, where did you get the info you quoted? [/color]

Quote from: parentsfortruth

I've done some digging myself, about Bishop Taylor, and I have no doubt he was validly consecrated, in fact, multiple times. Fr. Bolduc -was- careful.

Quote

Bishop Patrick Taylor was born and raised a Roman Catholic. He became dissatisfied with the changes of Vatican II and became an Orthodox priest. He later returned to the True Faith after being advised by an independent traditional Catholic bishop.

When he returned to the True Faith, he was already a validly ordained priest. He received episcopal ordination from Archbishop Michael Boucher, whose episcopal lineage is Old Catholic and Eastern Orthodox and recognized as valid because it was personally investigated by the late Cardinal Edouard Gagnon. Where is the proof for this? Docuмented evidence should be abundantly available.

One of the co-consecrators of Bishop Taylor was Archbishop Denis Garrison, an Eastern Orthodox bishop whose lineage is recognized by the Archdiocese of New York beginning with Cardinal Francis Spellman (1965) and later by Cardinal Terrence Cooke (1967). Again, where is the proof for this?[/color]

Though his episcopal lineage was recognized before and after Vatican II, Bishop Taylor sought conditional episcopal ordination in 2001 from Bishop Merril Adamson. Bishop Adamson is a Thuc-line whose lineage is from Bishop Christian Datessen, a Thuc-line bishop living in France. If his episcopal lineage was recognized before and after Vatican II then why did he get a conditional consecration done? Are the sacraments some play things? This is bizarre.

Bishop Taylor's validity was recently defended by Dr. Rama Coomaraswamy, a former SSPX seminary professor and one of the original members of the Society of St. Pius V (SSPV).

He was consecrated with the Traditional Rite of Episcopal Consecration. He uses an English translation of the Traditional Rite to confer Holy Orders. The Vatican to this day has a record of him, listing him as a bishop because the Holy See has kept records of independent bishops since the 1950s.

So as a bishop he now thinks it legitimate to make things up as he goes as in using an English translation of the Traditional Rite to confer Holy Orders? Even Novus Ordo dioceses do not do this. What is going on here?

Again, discernment is needed. Also, where did you get the info you quoted? [/color]

Guest in Red,
You beat me to it. Thank you.

 :applause:

This is from Bishop Bruno's website:

Bishop Bruno’s Apostolic Succession is derived from Bishop Patrick Taylor, who possesses valid lineages that include Eastern Orthodox, Old Roman Catholic (i.e. “Old Catholic”-Utrecht), Brazilian National Catholic (Duarte-Costa), and Roman Catholic bishops, specifically the Thuc lineage.