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Author Topic: When does gambling become a mortal sin?  (Read 848 times)

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Änσnymσus

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When does gambling become a mortal sin?
« on: March 22, 2024, 03:19:14 AM »
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    • And is gambling always a venial sin?
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #1 on: March 22, 2024, 05:46:36 AM »
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    • I looked it up....

    From the Catholic Dictionary (1958):

    BETTING AND GAMBLING: Betting is in itself lawful provided that the subject matter of the bet is not sinful, that neither party is certain of the event, and that both parties understand the bet in the same way. Gambling on games of skill or of chance is lawful provided that both parties are willing to play, even though one of them realizes that he has no chance of success; that cheating and fraud are absent; and that the money staked is not required for payment of debts or to support themselves and their families. Gambling on the stock exchange is lawful unless unjust devices such as causing an artificial rise and fall of prices are employed. Betting and gambling are dangerous, for they easily lead to sin, misery, ruin of self and others. In 1590 Pope Gregory XIV found it necessary to restrain the sporting Romans, by forbidding, on pain of excommunication, all betting on the results of papal elections, the duration of conclaves and the creation of new cardinals.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #2 on: March 22, 2024, 06:49:59 AM »
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    • I was just thinking that when our Lord was crucified the Romans gambled to see who got His clothes.  
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #3 on: March 22, 2024, 06:54:58 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 22, 2024, 06:49:59 AM
    I was just thinking that when our Lord was crucified the Romans gambled to see who got His clothes. 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #4 on: March 22, 2024, 06:55:14 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on March 22, 2024, 05:46:36 AM
    ... and that the money staked is not required for payment of debts or to support themselves and their families ...

    This would be the key part.  If you get to a point where you're hurting your family if you lose the amount of money you wager, then I imagine it can become a mortal sin if losing the amount of money wagered would have a serious impact on your family and your obligations to them.

    I recall a story from Padre Pio's life where (if I recall) he told someone to buy a lottery ticket for some charity (perhaps his hospital) and he won.  But I may mis-recall it.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #5 on: March 22, 2024, 06:56:14 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 22, 2024, 06:49:59 AM
    I was just thinking that when our Lord was crucified the Romans gambled to see who got His clothes. 

    I'm not sure that would qualify as gambling.  They were just drawing lots (or rolling dice or something) to see who would get Our Lord's indivisible garment.  I wouldn't consider that gambling.  I don't think they were risking anything.  Where their sin lay was in theft, since they had no right to Our Lord's property.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #6 on: March 22, 2024, 08:09:22 AM »
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    • Just my opinion, but there's threshold where stealing becomes mortal.  I think it's something like if you steal an avg day's wage?  $12/hr x 8 hours = around $100. 

    Logically, if you're betting something similar, $ wise, it could be considered a mortal sin.  ???  I don't know, i'm just trying to come up with a $ amount.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #7 on: March 22, 2024, 08:09:48 AM »
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    • That was me.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #8 on: March 22, 2024, 08:14:09 AM »
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    • Yeah, it's a tough one.  If I'm very wealthy, wagering $5,000 might be nothing for me ... except that I think one would do better donating the money to charity or to the poor if you really don't need it that much.  Some people might consider gambling to be an expensive form of entertainment.  Just don't know for sure.  Text above only mentioned support for your family and paying debts, but I would think that there might be obligations of charity as well.  If I wager $100, I could have donated that to the poor instead ... except you could look at it like, "well, that $100 could turn into $1000 and its loss is not completely certain".  It's complicated.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #9 on: March 22, 2024, 09:01:38 AM »
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    Yeah, it's a tough one.  If I'm very wealthy, wagering $5,000 might be nothing for me
    Yes.  I wonder if stealing's $ amount would depend on the OTHER person (i.e. you assume the person is not wealthy, so anything stolen of moderate value is mortal), while gambling would depend on YOUR situation (i.e. your daily wage, finances, etc)?  I agree, charity would play some part in this.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #10 on: March 22, 2024, 09:33:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on March 22, 2024, 05:46:36 AM
    I looked it up....

    From the Catholic Dictionary (1958):

    BETTING AND GAMBLING: Betting is in itself lawful provided that the subject matter of the bet is not sinful, that neither party is certain of the event, and that both parties understand the bet in the same way. Gambling on games of skill or of chance is lawful provided that both parties are willing to play, even though one of them realizes that he has no chance of success; that cheating and fraud are absent; and that the money staked is not required for payment of debts or to support themselves and their families. Gambling on the stock exchange is lawful unless unjust devices such as causing an artificial rise and fall of prices are employed. Betting and gambling are dangerous, for they easily lead to sin, misery, ruin of self and others. In 1590 Pope Gregory XIV found it necessary to restrain the sporting Romans, by forbidding, on pain of excommunication, all betting on the results of papal elections, the duration of conclaves and the creation of new cardinals.
    The bolded is interesting.  Wouldn't this mean betting and gambling are occasions of sin?
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #11 on: March 22, 2024, 10:10:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 22, 2024, 09:33:06 AM
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    Betting and gambling are dangerous, for they easily lead to sin, misery, ruin of self and others.

    The bolded is interesting.  Wouldn't this mean betting and gambling are occasions of sin?
    I am guessing it's put that way because it's not always an occasion of sin for everyone, but is mainly for those who tend to be greedy or are afflicted with avarice, which is essentially the love of money for all it can do for one and buy. 
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #12 on: March 22, 2024, 11:15:16 AM »
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    • I don't gamble. period. but if some of my friends want to use quarters as "chips", I can't see how that's a sin, even venial.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #13 on: March 23, 2024, 04:41:50 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 22, 2024, 08:14:09 AM
    Yeah, it's a tough one.  If I'm very wealthy, wagering $5,000 might be nothing for me ... except that I think one would do better donating the money to charity or to the poor if you really don't need it that much.  Some people might consider gambling to be an expensive form of entertainment.  Just don't know for sure.  Text above only mentioned support for your family and paying debts, but I would think that there might be obligations of charity as well.  If I wager $100, I could have donated that to the poor instead ... except you could look at it like, "well, that $100 could turn into $1000 and its loss is not completely certain".  It's complicated.
    This logic could also apply to cruises, golf club memberships, jet sky, and other things of the sort, right?
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    Änσnymσus

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    Re: When does gambling become a mortal sin?
    « Reply #14 on: March 23, 2024, 04:45:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Änσnymσus on March 23, 2024, 04:41:50 AM
    This logic could also apply to cruises, golf club memberships, jet sky, expensive whisky, and other things of the sort, right? I guess the only thing that distinguishes gambling from those is the fact that gambling can be "scaled down", that is, the entertainment and dangers are accessible to the not-so-rich.
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