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Author Topic: SSPX Fake Priests  (Read 45706 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: SSPX Fake Priests
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2025, 08:54:36 AM »
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  • Casting doubt on the validity of a priest is a sin, likely mortal. If you're worried, don't go to his mass. You can admit personal doubts to your loved ones.  But only as your doubts. You cannot advertise as if you're judge and jury of a circuмstance way beyond your information or control. Don't even include even a potential calumny. You don't know anything about all the circuмstances or details of any particular priest, let alone his internal forum. This kind of division is tearing the Church apart and innocent priests and laity are suffering. If Mary had warned the laity about Judas, you'd have cause. She didn't.      

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #31 on: July 31, 2025, 08:57:01 AM »
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  • Casting doubt on the validity of a priest is a sin, likely mortal. If you're worried, don't go to his mass. You can admit personal doubts to your loved ones.  But only as your doubts. You cannot advertise as if you're judge and jury of a circuмstance way beyond your information or control. Don't even include even a potential calumny. You don't know anything about all the circuмstances or details of any particular priest, let alone his internal forum. This kind of division is tearing the Church apart and innocent priests and laity are suffering. If Mary had warned the laity about Judas, you'd have cause. She didn't.     
    Nonsense. The Church tells us to avoid doubtful sacraments under pain of mortal sin.


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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #32 on: July 31, 2025, 09:14:45 AM »
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  • Casting doubt on the validity of a priest is a sin, likely mortal. If you're worried, don't go to his mass. You can admit personal doubts to your loved ones.  But only as your doubts. You cannot advertise as if you're judge and jury of a circuмstance way beyond your information or control. Don't even include even a potential calumny. You don't know anything about all the circuмstances or details of any particular priest, let alone his internal forum. This kind of division is tearing the Church apart and innocent priests and laity are suffering. If Mary had warned the laity about Judas, you'd have cause. She didn't.     
    This.

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #33 on: July 31, 2025, 09:31:40 AM »
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  • Judas was a valid bishop. He has nothing to do with this question. There is no doubt about his validity.

    It is not a sin to say a priest is doubtfully ordained and therefore we should not go to his Mass. Telling the truth is not sinful. For example if I say that Fr. Pfeiffer is very doubtfully a bishop and therefore men ordained by him are most likely not priests but laymen dressing as priests that is not a sin. And the young fellows he ordains are guilty of asking orders from him. Anyone receiving the sacraments from them is foolish. It is silly to go to confession to a man who is not certainly a priest. Because if he is not a priest I remain in my sins. And it if it not certain that he is a priest I don't know my state. Am I still in my sins or were they absolved? I don't know. That is why we must tell men who we don't know if they are priests or not to get conditionally ordained by a certainly valid bishop.

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #34 on: July 31, 2025, 10:00:04 AM »
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  • Judas was a valid bishop. He has nothing to do with this question. There is no doubt about his validity.

    It is not a sin to say a priest is doubtfully ordained and therefore we should not go to his Mass. Telling the truth is not sinful. 
    You do not have the authority to say this.

    You may say: "Far as I am concerned" or "In my opinion" he is not a priest," or that "his validity is doubtful" and "I will not go to him."

    But you cannot go around proclaiming invalidity or doubtful validity as though it has been officially decreed and as though you have the authority to say it - because you don't,  or as if it is a dogmatic fact - because it isn't, and if you're wrong, and you could be wrong, you will suffer the consequences of being wrong.

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    For example if I say that Fr. Pfeiffer is very doubtfully a bishop and therefore men ordained by him are most likely not priests but laymen dressing as priests that is not a sin. And the young fellows he ordains are guilty of asking orders from him. Anyone receiving the sacraments from them is foolish. It is silly to go to confession to a man who is not certainly a priest. Because if he is not a priest I remain in my sins. And it if it not certain that he is a priest I don't know my state. Am I still in my sins or were they absolved? I don't know. That is why we must tell men who we don't know if they are priests or not to get conditionally ordained by a certainly valid bishop.
    While I personally agree, you (we) could be wrong. Aside from that, everyone here already knows the repercussions of doubtful or invalid priests and bishops, so no need to keep repeating it. 

      


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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #35 on: July 31, 2025, 10:14:50 AM »
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  • Casting doubt on the validity of a priest is a sin, likely mortal. If you're worried, don't go to his mass. You can admit personal doubts to your loved ones.  But only as your doubts. You cannot advertise as if you're judge and jury of a circuмstance way beyond your information or control. Don't even include even a potential calumny. You don't know anything about all the circuмstances or details of any particular priest, let alone his internal forum. This kind of division is tearing the Church apart and innocent priests and laity are suffering. If Mary had warned the laity about Judas, you'd have cause. She didn't.     
    You don't know what you're talking about.  A negative doubt is based on one's personal emotions or ideas.  That's not what we're talking about.

    A positive doubt (canon law) is based on a fact, on evidence, that there is a problem.  The change to the words of the new rites are facts.  It's evidence that something is different.  Is it invalid?  We don't know, only the Church can decide.  Is there doubt, based on these changes to the words?  Yes, Trads have been saying such since the 1970s.

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #36 on: July 31, 2025, 10:17:46 AM »
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  • You do not have the authority to say this.

    You may say: "Far as I am concerned" or "In my opinion" he is not a priest," or that "his validity is doubtful" and "I will not go to him." 
    You sound like you are new to Tradition and/or very uninformed.  The list of clerics who have said the new rites are doubtful is long.  Bishop Tissier being a big one, along with many others.  This doubt is not personal, it is based on facts.  V2 changed the rites...do you deny this?  This change is doubtful, for validity.  You can't argue otherwise.

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #37 on: July 31, 2025, 10:41:15 AM »
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  • Judas was a valid bishop. He has nothing to do with this question. There is no doubt about his validity.

    It is not a sin to say a priest is doubtfully ordained and therefore we should not go to his Mass. Telling the truth is not sinful. For example if I say that Fr. Pfeiffer is very doubtfully a bishop and therefore men ordained by him are most likely not priests but laymen dressing as priests that is not a sin. And the young fellows he ordains are guilty of asking orders from him. Anyone receiving the sacraments from them is foolish. It is silly to go to confession to a man who is not certainly a priest. Because if he is not a priest I remain in my sins. And it if it not certain that he is a priest I don't know my state. Am I still in my sins or were they absolved? I don't know. That is why we must tell men who we don't know if they are priests or not to get conditionally ordained by a certainly valid bishop.
    Yes, it is a sin.  Don't go to his mass if you are doubtful. Just don't spread doubt. Doubt itself can be a sin. Even worse, you cannot disparage people, let alone priests, even if you think you know something. Simple information only when absolutely necessary. Besides, you might be mistaken, or received mistaken information making you responsible for speaking before you knew more. You do you. Stop dividing. No doubt there are thousands or even millions of people who don't go to mass for fear that all or most priests are pedos, or invalid, or moles when they are not.  Even the Church herself doesn't make such a judgement without a tribunal, or at least some kind of hearing.  The day the laity are allowed to run the show, saying who's in and who's out, is the day people will praise synodality. The definition of synodality: Operating under the authority of the whims of the laity knowingly or unknowingly manipulated by evil.      


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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #38 on: July 31, 2025, 10:50:12 AM »
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  • You sound like you are new to Tradition and/or very uninformed.  The list of clerics who have said the new rites are doubtful is long.  Bishop Tissier being a big one, along with many others.  This doubt is not personal, it is based on facts.  V2 changed the rites...do you deny this?  This change is doubtful, for validity.  You can't argue otherwise.
    You're no cleric, aside from members of your own family, you have no authority over anyone and facts or not, you should not speak as if you have an authority that you do not have.

    Because you have no authority, you turn it into a personal matter. IOW, the retort to your claim is: who do you think you are?  
     

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #39 on: July 31, 2025, 11:08:25 AM »
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  • You're no cleric, aside from members of your own family, you have no authority over anyone and facts or not, you should not speak as if you have an authority that you do not have.

    Because you have no authority, you turn it into a personal matter. IOW, the retort to your claim is: who do you think you are?  
    Is Bishop Tissier not an authority?  Bishop Dolan?  Fr Cekada?  You may not like these clerics, but they put in the time to research the issues.

    No one can deny that the new rites are changed.  Not even you.  So what does this change mean?  It means that validity is doubtful.  You can't argue it.

    Canon Law (which is an authority) has rules on how to treat doubtful sacraments.  You can either choose to follow canon law or not.  This isn't a new issue.

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #40 on: July 31, 2025, 12:00:31 PM »
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  • Is Bishop Tissier not an authority?  Bishop Dolan?  Fr Cekada?  You may not like these clerics, but they put in the time to research the issues.

    No one can deny that the new rites are changed.  Not even you.  So what does this change mean?  It means that validity is doubtful.  You can't argue it.

    Canon Law (which is an authority) has rules on how to treat doubtful sacraments.  You can either choose to follow canon law or not.  This isn't a new issue.
    I said YOU do not have the authority to say this, I never said +Tissier didn't. Stay the course man! Did +Tissier create a website, name it "Fake Priests" with a picture of a demon priest as the headliner? Does it even sound like something he would do? Of course not and neither should you! 


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #41 on: July 31, 2025, 12:25:35 PM »
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  • Is Bishop Tissier not an authority?  Bishop Dolan?  Fr Cekada?  You may not like these clerics, but they put in the time to research the issues.

    No one can deny that the new rites are changed.  Not even you.  So what does this change mean?  It means that validity is doubtful.  You can't argue it.

    Canon Law (which is an authority) has rules on how to treat doubtful sacraments.  You can either choose to follow canon law or not.  This isn't a new issue.

    Can you explain how traditionalist clerics have authority? Who gave them authority? Who are their superiors?

    They have nothing more than a relative moral authority. And, even them, none of them had formal studies on anything related to Theology. Even the seminaries that they went to were not real seminaries.

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #42 on: July 31, 2025, 12:25:46 PM »
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  • If +Tissier says the new rites are doubtful, I’m not allowed to say the same thing?  :confused:  :confused: :confused:

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #43 on: July 31, 2025, 12:29:10 PM »
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  • I said YOU do not have the authority to say this, I never said +Tissier didn't. Stay the course man! Did +Tissier create a website, name it "Fake Priests" with a picture of a demon priest as the headliner? Does it even sound like something he would do? Of course not and neither should you!
    Actually, the priest pictured on the website is not a "demon."  His name is Sergio Guiterrez Benitez and he is now 80 years old.  He was a wrestler but used wrestling to support an orphanage in Mexico that he founded.  

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fray_Tormenta

    Just FYI.  

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    Re: SSPX Fake Priests
    « Reply #44 on: July 31, 2025, 12:34:21 PM »
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  • Can you explain how traditionalist clerics have authority? Who gave them authority? Who are their superiors?

    They have nothing more than a relative moral authority. And, even them, none of them had formal studies on anything related to Theology. Even the seminaries that they went to were not real seminaries.
    There’s various types of authority.  We’re not talking about jurisdiction.  

    We’re actually talking about the logical principle of “authority of consensus”.  Every major Trad group (R&R, Sede, independent) has said there’s problems with V2.  That’s why Traditionalism exists to begin with.  Even clerics who were PART of Rome (in the 60s), said there are theological/doctrinal issues.  

    The consensus on the new rite is “they are not 100% valid”.  Even the sspx does some type of “investigation”.  You don’t investigate something which is 100% certain.  Ergo, there is a doubt.

    The doubts around the new rites is THE REASON that Traditinalism exists.  If you have 0 doubts on the new rites, then you have ZERO REASON to be a Trad.  If you believe the new rites are ok, you are being disobedient to Rome, by attending a Trad chapel.

    Don’t let the sspx gaslight you.  The doubts on the new rites have been there from the beginning, since the 60s.  This is not some new debate.