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Author Topic: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite  (Read 2088 times)

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Online Giovanni Berto

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Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2024, 09:21:09 AM »
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  • For the anonymous who quoted "the new CCC":

    This is not a real Catholic catechism. This is the Novus Ordo catechism. People won't take your arguments seriously if you quote Modernist books, and you take a serious risk of learning some grave errors by reading this horrible books.

    Be aware of Modernism.


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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #31 on: April 17, 2024, 09:29:13 AM »
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  • Right.
    WRONG!

    The Errors of Peter Abelard #10: “That they have not sinned who being ignorant have crucified Christ, and that whatever is done through ignorance must not be considered sin.” - Condemned

    Ignorance is not a get-out-of-jail card or a license to sin, it's an extenuating circuмstance.


    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #32 on: April 17, 2024, 09:29:31 AM »
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  • WRONG!

    The Errors of Peter Abelard #10: “That they have not sinned who being ignorant have crucified Christ, and that whatever is done through ignorance must not be considered sin.” - Condemned

    Ignorance is not a get-out-of-jail card or a license to sin, it's an extenuating circuмstance.
    That was me.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #33 on: April 17, 2024, 09:33:47 AM »
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  • That was me.
    That's why I would re-confess my sins to a trad priest.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #34 on: April 17, 2024, 09:39:13 AM »
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  • That's why I would re-confess my sins to a trad priest.
    There's literally no reason not to do so. People should be making yearly general confessions anyway, but instead they're reluctant to do it once after a supposed conversion from a lax Novus Ordo life. Ridiculous.

    General confessions should be made:
    1) before receiving the sacraments of confirmation and matrimony
    2) at any important spiritual junction or when turning over a new leaf after a period of sin
    3) periodically (St. Francis de Sales says yearly) to reflect on your past life and ensure the validity of your confessions.

    Priests should recommend general confessions regularly instead of thwarting them.


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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #35 on: April 17, 2024, 01:20:31 PM »
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  • Ask a traditional priest and follow his guidance.  Unless you’d prefer the advice of an ordinary lay woman in her 60’s.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #36 on: April 17, 2024, 03:12:45 PM »
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  • Quote
    But if someone doesn't know it's displeasing to God, bad, and harmful, that individual does not commit a sin by participating in the NO.  In order to commit sin, you have to WILL something that is evil, and if you don't know that it's evil, you're not willing the evil.
    No.  Your examples assume the person has a well-formed conscience and isn't guilty through spiritual ignorance. 


    Some of us are assuming the contrary, i.e. a poorly-formed conscience (which there are many types) and thus, they are guilty of the sin of ignorance.

    As St Thomas says on those who are ignorant of the Faith...they are guilty because of their ignorance, which is due to other sins.  In the same way, those that are ignorant of Traditionalism and go to the novus ordo, are guilty because of their ignorance, due to other sins.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #37 on: April 17, 2024, 05:05:37 PM »
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  • No.  Your examples assume the person has a well-formed conscience and isn't guilty through spiritual ignorance. 


    Some of us are assuming the contrary, i.e. a poorly-formed conscience (which there are many types) and thus, they are guilty of the sin of ignorance.

    As St Thomas says on those who are ignorant of the Faith...they are guilty because of their ignorance, which is due to other sins.  In the same way, those that are ignorant of Traditionalism and go to the novus ordo, are guilty because of their ignorance, due to other sins.

    So you're assuming internal forum guilt of a mal-formed conscience.  Got it.  Most people growing up in the NO don't now anything else.  I grew up thinking simply that this is a Catholic Mass.  I could discern bad practices in the NOM, in which I would refuse to participate, i.e. Communion in the Hand, etc., but that's it.  I was nearly 30 years old before even the internet was a "thing".

    I wrote quite clearly above, that that there could be some culpability (known in most cases only to God) with regard to whether or not the individual sufficiently informed himself.

    To extend my example of the $100 bill above.  I take $100 off a table (and pocket it), thinking it's mine, though in reality it belongs to someone else.  Maybe I should have investigated, or asked around first, but heck if I didn't just have a very similar $100 bill a few minutes earlier, so it never even occurred to me that it just might belong to someone else rather than being my own.

    BOTTOM LINE:  You cannot commit a grave sin without knowing it to be a grave sin and willing it anyway.  Nobody commits a grave sin without knowing it.  This is utterly absurd and people have to stop trying to spread that crap.  Natural law is known in written in men's hearts and is knowable there, just like the existence of God, and the only way one doesn't know it is by drowning it out.  But positive law, such as the requirement to fast on Fridays, or questions like whether the NOM is displeasing to God, those are not.  Very many sincere individuals have concluded that the NOM is not offensive to God.  I could sit here myself and make a convincing devil's advocate case for the NOM myself, reducing the evils we see to "abuses" of the "pure" NOM.


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #38 on: April 17, 2024, 05:12:36 PM »
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  • Of course you have to know that what you're doing is evil or bad in order to commit a sin.

    Both of you guys need to stop posting now, since you're putting out bad information that could be harmful to people.

    This ☝️☝️☝️
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #39 on: April 17, 2024, 05:20:29 PM »
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  • Very many sincere individuals have concluded that the NOM is not offensive to God. 
    No, nobody sincere has concluded that the Novus Bogus is pleasing to God.

    For there must be also heresies: that they also, who are approved, may be made manifest among you. (1 Corinthians 11:19)

    We know who is of good wiil precisely by what faith they profess more than anything else. The NO is an expression of a freemasonic man-centered religion which is on its face completely contrary to the Catholic Mass. 


    Quote
    I could sit here myself and make a convincing devil's advocate case for the NOM myself, reducing the evils we see to "abuses" of the "pure" NOM.
    Yeah, and a well-spoken Jєω can make a great-sounding case against Christ and a well-read atheist can obliterate someone's faith in the inerrancy of Scripture. That doesn't make the people of bad will who fell for satan's trap excused from being Jєωs and atheists.





    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #40 on: April 17, 2024, 05:21:40 PM »
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  • Of course you have to know that what you're doing is evil or bad in order to commit a sin.

    Both of you guys need to stop posting now, since you're putting out bad information that could be harmful to people.
    The Errors of Peter Abelard #10: “That they have not sinned who being ignorant have crucified Christ, and that whatever is done through ignorance must not be considered sin.” - Condemned

    Your first sentence is literally a condemned statement.


    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #41 on: April 17, 2024, 05:23:31 PM »
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  • The Errors of Peter Abelard #10: “That they have not sinned who being ignorant have crucified Christ, and that whatever is done through ignorance must not be considered sin.” - Condemned

    Your first sentence is literally a condemned statement.
    Unfortunately I can't edit the above post. Very annoying.

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #42 on: April 17, 2024, 05:25:10 PM »
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  • Quote
    BOTTOM LINE:  You cannot commit a grave sin without knowing it to be a grave sin and willing it anyway.  Nobody commits a grave sin without knowing it.
    Wrong.  The act can be mortally sinful (i.e. a pagan who makes fun of Catholicism or is blasphemous), while the culpability/guilt can be non-existent (because the person didn't know any better).

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #43 on: April 17, 2024, 05:26:27 PM »
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  • Quote
    The Errors of Peter Abelard #10: 
    “That they have not sinned who being ignorant have crucified Christ, and that whatever is done through ignorance must not be considered sin.” - Condemned
    Thank you for pointing this out.  Very important.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Re-confessing sins that have been confessed in the New Rite
    « Reply #44 on: April 17, 2024, 05:35:15 PM »
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  • St. Thomas.  Prima Secundae 76, Article 3:

    Quote
    I answer that, Ignorance, by its very nature, renders the act which it causes involuntary. Now it has already been stated (Articles 1 and 2) that ignorance is said to cause the act which the contrary knowledge would have prevented; so that this act, if knowledge were to hand, would be contrary to the will, which is the meaning of the word involuntary. If, however, the knowledge, which is removed by ignorance, would not have prevented the act, on account of the inclination of the will thereto, the lack of this knowledge does not make that man unwilling, but not willing, as stated in Ethic. iii, 1: and such like ignorance which is not the cause of the sinful act, as already stated, since it does not make the act to be involuntary, does not excuse from sin. The same applies to any ignorance that does not cause, but follows or accompanies the sinful act.

    On the other hand, ignorance which is the cause of the act, since it makes it to be involuntary, of its very nature excuses from sin, because voluntariness is essential to sin. But it may fail to excuse altogether from sin, and this for two reasons. First, on the part of the thing itself which is not known. For ignorance excuses from sin, in so far as something is not known to be a sin. Now it may happen that a person ignores some circuмstance of a sin, the knowledge of which circuмstance would prevent him from sinning, whether it belong to the substance of the sin, or not; and nevertheless his knowledge is sufficient for him to be aware that the act is sinful; for instance, if a man strike someone, knowing that it is a man (which suffices for it to be sinful) and yet be ignorant of the fact that it is his father, (which is a circuмstance constituting another species of sin); or, suppose that he is unaware that this man will defend himself and strike him back, and that if he had known this, he would not have struck him (which does not affect the sinfulness of the act). Wherefore, though this man sins through ignorance, yet he is not altogether excused, because, not withstanding, he has knowledge of the sin. Secondly, this may happen on the part of the ignorance itself, because, to wit, this ignorance is voluntary, either directly, as when a man wishes of set purpose to be ignorant of certain things that he may sin the more freely; or indirectly, as when a man, through stress of work or other occupations, neglects to acquire the knowledge which would restrain him from sin. For such like negligence renders the ignorance itself voluntary and sinful, provided it be about matters one is bound and able to know. Consequently this ignorance does not altogether excuse from sin. If, however, the ignorance be such as to be entirely involuntary, either through being invincible, or through being of matters one is not bound to know, then such like ignorance excuses from sin altogether.


    Basically, an ignorance whereby you would not have committed the act (had you known otherwise) excuses entirely from sin, since since is by very definition and inherently and act of the will and voluntary.

    If, on the other hand, your will was inclined to commit the sin anyway, even if you had known about it, this makes you not "unwilling" but simply "not willing" (per accidens).  Here's an example.  I regularly ignore fast days of the Church and just eat what I want.  Today happens to be an Ember Day, but I'm ignorant that it's an Ember Day, and so I don't fast.  Well, even HAD I known it was an Ember Day, I would have eaten what I wanted anyway, since I just don't care.  That's the distinction between "not willing" (per accidens) and being "unwilling" per se to commit a sin.

    You can go on the read the rest of 76 yourselves, but ignorance can diminish guilty to the extent that the ignorance itself is voluntary.  For fully-willful ignorance, St. Thomas cites the example of someone who refuses to learn about the possible sinfulness of certain actions precisely because he doesn't WANT to know, so he can go ahead and do those actions.  Partially diminishing the guilty would be someone who's just lazy and therefore doesn't know something he should know, though doesn't do it specifically so that he could commit sin.  These, again, are varying degrees between being unwilling and being not willing merely by accident.