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Author Topic: Outside of indult  (Read 1998 times)

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Re: Outside of indult
« Reply #65 on: Today at 12:44:33 PM »
Ultimately, the responsibility to provide a spouse rests with God.  If He wants you to be married, you will get married. 

Historically, there has never been one way that spouses met.  Plenty of people have met accidentally, or by way of circuмstances beyond their control.  This was God intervening.  Others have met through social gatherings.  Others have met by way of friends.  Etc, etc.  It all depends on the couples personality.  Your idealistic view is nice but not supported by history.  Nothing wrong with YAG groups, run by catholic parents.  If that doesn't suit you, fine.  It doesn't suit everyone.  For plenty of people, they enjoy it.  To each his own.
That's just dishonest. The general rule throughout the history of Christendom was family involvement in bringing a man and woman together to eventually marry. There were exceptions of course and always will be. But the exception has now become the rule and that should be unacceptable to all traditional Catholics. There are no rules to follow anymore which is a massive contributor to the problems in tradition.

How are parents supposed to teach their children if there are no rules to follow? Pray a 54 day novena and do whatever you want after that? Do we apply this same logic to anything else in life?

I would love to hear what St. Alphonsus Ligouri would say about all of this. He said most marriages back in his day were blasphemous. Imagine what he would say today.

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Re: Outside of indult
« Reply #66 on: Today at 02:59:07 PM »
That's just dishonest. The general rule throughout the history of Christendom was family involvement in bringing a man and woman together to eventually marry. There were exceptions of course and always will be. But the exception has now become the rule and that should be unacceptable to all traditional Catholics. There are no rules to follow anymore which is a massive contributor to the problems in tradition.

How are parents supposed to teach their children if there are no rules to follow? Pray a 54 day novena and do whatever you want after that? Do we apply this same logic to anything else in life?

I would love to hear what St. Alphonsus Ligouri would say about all of this. He said most marriages back in his day were blasphemous. Imagine what he would say today.
Family involvement is much wider and general of an idea than your original ideal, which was the responsibility of the father.  You are ultimately seeking arranged marriages, which were a thing in the past, but not as widely practiced as you suggest.  After all, marriage is a choice.  Both parties have a choice in the matter.  And God designed people to be attracted to each other.  After the initial attraction, then the family would get involved to help discern.

If a father were to get together a bunch of suitors for his daughter, it's still her choice.  That's the idea of the YAG.  To get a bunch of Traditionalist catholics together to see if there are any attraction.  If there is, then the suitors would meet the parents.  But you're against YAG, so you're arguing for arranged marriages.  I have nothing against arranged marriages but I don't think that idea is going to happen much.


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Re: Outside of indult
« Reply #67 on: Today at 03:41:40 PM »
Family involvement is much wider and general of an idea than your original ideal, which was the responsibility of the father.  You are ultimately seeking arranged marriages, which were a thing in the past, but not as widely practiced as you suggest.  After all, marriage is a choice.  Both parties have a choice in the matter.  And God designed people to be attracted to each other.  After the initial attraction, then the family would get involved to help discern.

If a father were to get together a bunch of suitors for his daughter, it's still her choice.  That's the idea of the YAG.  To get a bunch of Traditionalist catholics together to see if there are any attraction.  If there is, then the suitors would meet the parents.  But you're against YAG, so you're arguing for arranged marriages.  I have nothing against arranged marriages but I don't think that idea is going to happen much.
No where did I say or imply forced marriages. Those marriages are usually invalid. Maybe not for nobility.

Have you heard of a quinceañera? On the young woman's 15th birthday, her parents brought suitors over for a celebration. The young woman, family members, and matchmakers had opportunities to interact with the suitors together and eventually compare notes to make a match. The young woman did have a say on who to marry. Very similar customs happened throughout Christendom.

The idea of young men and women taking matters into their own hands without influential input from their parents like YAGs are totally foreign to Catholicism. There is a major difference between a young woman getting the attention of suitors with her father a long distance away and her father being there with her. Many of the woman who attend these gatherings travel long distances.

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Re: Outside of indult
« Reply #68 on: Today at 04:29:52 PM »
No where did I say or imply forced marriages. Those marriages are usually invalid. Maybe not for nobility.

Have you heard of a quinceañera? On the young woman's 15th birthday, her parents brought suitors over for a celebration. The young woman, family members, and matchmakers had opportunities to interact with the suitors together and eventually compare notes to make a match. The young woman did have a say on who to marry. Very similar customs happened throughout Christendom.

The idea of young men and women taking matters into their own hands without influential input from their parents like YAGs are totally foreign to Catholicism. There is a major difference between a young woman getting the attention of suitors with her father a long distance away and her father being there with her. Many of the woman who attend these gatherings travel long distances.
I said arranged marriages, which aren't forced.  Two different things.

What you describe sounds like YAG for a very young woman.  YAG is typically for older, more mature people.  There is still adult supervision.  And if a woman traveled to a YAG and met someone she was interested in, then if the suitor wanted to see her, guess what?  He has to travel to meet the family.  There is no substantial difference between what you're describing and what YAG is, except distance.

And if the young woman of a quinceanera said no to all the suitors at the party, then she was left with meeting someone at church or out in town.  This did happen.  Let's not pretend that 90% of marriages happened at family parties.