Author Topic: Michael and Debbie Pearl (Read 3193 times)

Änσnymσus · « **on:** July 21, 2023, 01:49:30 PM »

We have several traditional Catholic friends who are devotees of the works of Michael and Debbie Pearl. I have kind of an oppositional personality, so sometimes the very fact that someone is very passionate about something makes me disinterested in it-- as a result, I've never taken the time to read their books. However, these friends of ours are becoming increasingly confrontational about the contents of the Pearls' books, very strongly advocating that we read them and employ the system/strategy found therein.

I would love feedback from anyone on CI regarding the Pearls and their books. I know the surface web despises them, calls them child abusers, and so forth. I certainly won't draw any conclusions from Wikipedia about them. But I also know they are protestants, and I am viscerally disturbed by the way that our friends (who are traditional Catholics) treat their books as though they are Holy Writ. I'm slightly exaggerating, and also prejudiced-- but I really have a bad snake-oil taste in my mouth about the whole thing. Trying to sort the wheat from the Chaff.

Especially if you have read the books and know more about these people than I do, would love to have a discussion about the merits/demerits.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2023, 02:07:09 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 21, 2023, 01:49:30 PM

We have several traditional Catholic friends who are devotees of the works of Michael and Debbie Pearl.

Never heard of the two but there is nothing I want to read about religion from a protestant, you have weird traditional Catholic friends. If they keep it up, it is likely that they won't be traditional Catholics for much longer.

HeartlandCatholic · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2023, 02:10:49 PM »

I hadn't heard of these two until now. It looks like Michael is an "independent Baptist preacher." Some of the weirdest, and most spiritually abusive, stuff that I've seen in a religious context comes from "independent Baptists." Another thing that I've noticed is that fundamentalist Protestants tend to take what is a good idea in basic form (like corporal punishment) and then run with it in directions that end up rather extreme. If even supposed traditional Catholics are treating their work like it is divinely inspired, then I'd suggest the fruits are rather rotten.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2023, 02:31:39 PM »

I have never read their books, but have heard, from good and devout Traditional Catholic father that the parenting methods taught in their books have very practical applications for raising children. They note that the authors are Prots, so one must take their writings with a grain of salt, but that their methods of raising good, respectful, well behaved children are in practical application, quite Catholic.

And considering the person who told me this has done a very commendable job raising children that are respectful, well behaved/mannered, polite, and appear to love and practice their Catholic faith, leads me to believe there would be nothing harmful in reading through their content.

Again, fwiw, I haven't read them, so I can offer no detailed insights, just relaying what I've been told from someone that I feel is a reliable source. Hope that helps.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2023, 02:34:41 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 21, 2023, 02:07:09 PM

Never heard of the two but there is nothing I want to read about religion from a protestant, you have weird traditional Catholic friends. If they keep it up, it is likely that they won't be traditional Catholics for much longer.

OP here. The books written by the Pearls are about child rearing. The authors are Protestant, home-schooling, homesteaders (or so I understand). I am sure religion enters into their work a bit, but I don't think it's an explicitly religious work.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2023, 02:37:23 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 21, 2023, 02:31:39 PM

I have never read their books, but have heard, from good and devout Traditional Catholic father that the parenting methods taught in their books have very practical applications for raising children. They note that the authors are Prots, so one must take their writings with a grain of salt, but that their methods of raising good, respectful, well behaved children are in practical application, quite Catholic.

And considering the person who told me this has done a very commendable job raising children that are respectful, well behaved/mannered, polite, and appear to love and practice their Catholic faith, leads me to believe there would be nothing harmful in reading through their content.

Again, fwiw, I haven't read them, so I can offer no detailed insights, just relaying what I've been told from someone that I feel is a reliable source. Hope that helps.

The people who have recommended the books to me also have children who are fairly well behaved. I do not doubt that there is good information in the book, if for no other reason than broken clocks are right twice a day. We were not recommended the book on the grounds that it had some useful ideas. We were recommended the book on the grounds that it works for every child, no matter what, as long as you just follow the system therein carefully.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2023, 02:39:59 PM »

Quote from: HeartlandCatholic on July 21, 2023, 02:10:49 PM

I hadn't heard of these two until now. It looks like Michael is an "independent Baptist preacher." Some of the weirdest, and most spiritually abusive, stuff that I've seen in a religious context comes from "independent Baptists." Another thing that I've noticed is that fundamentalist Protestants tend to take what is a good idea in basic form (like corporal punishment) and then run with it in directions that end up rather extreme. If even supposed traditional Catholics are treating their work like it is divinely inspired, then I'd suggest the fruits are rather rotten.

The people who have recommended it to us have well behaved children, at least so far. On the other hand, if you take what the Internet has to say about it, children have been killed by devotees of these works. As I mentioned in another post, the book was not recommended as something with some interesting or useful tips in it (you can find interesting/useful tips anywhere, probably even in this book). It was recommended much more strongly than that.

Minnesota · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2023, 02:53:31 PM »

Quote from: HeartlandCatholic on July 21, 2023, 02:10:49 PM

I hadn't heard of these two until now. It looks like Michael is an "independent Baptist preacher." Some of the weirdest, and most spiritually abusive, stuff that I've seen in a religious context comes from "independent Baptists." Another thing that I've noticed is that fundamentalist Protestants tend to take what is a good idea in basic form (like corporal punishment) and then run with it in directions that end up rather extreme. If even supposed traditional Catholics are treating their work like it is divinely inspired, then I'd suggest the fruits are rather rotten.

Agreed. The book and its methods are responsible for several deaths. Avoid Independent Baptists like the plague.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2023, 05:02:53 PM »

Quote from: Minnesota on July 21, 2023, 02:53:31 PM

Agreed. The book and its methods are responsible for several deaths. Avoid Independent Baptists like the plague.

OP here. Yes, I've read about the deaths attributed to the book. But the people who do the attributing also accuse the authors of being homophobic and other liberal buzzwords. This is why I am coming to other traditional Catholics, to see if any of them have any experience with it.

I am definitely put off by the zealotry with which the material has been presented to us. We were told by someone that the material in those books is the only thing this person thinks about, and the only thing they are interested in talking about. That struck me as a very strange thing to say, given how general and absolute a statement it is. Of course parents spend most of their time thinking about their children and raising them well, but that isn't what this person meant. They meant exactly what they said. It honestly struck me as a cultish attitude toward the material-- even if the material was good (and I don't know if it is), my antennae are up.

Has anyone actually read these authors?

Nadir · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2023, 05:51:19 PM »

I have never heard of these books.

I am surprised that no one has yet said that your “friends” are interfering and intruding where they.ought not.

I would wonder if they are telling you, in an underhand way, that you are dealing inadequately with your children.

I’d be giving them the old heave ho. These are the people who will fairly soon find themselves in a right mess. They have little discernment (if any) and are quite unbalanced.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2023, 06:10:12 PM »

Quote from: Nadir on July 21, 2023, 05:51:19 PM

I have never heard of these books.

I am surprised that no one has yet said that your “friends” are interfering and intruding where they.ought not.

I would wonder if they are telling you, in an underhand way, that you are dealing inadequately with your children.

I’d be giving them the old heave ho. These are the people who will fairly soon find themselves in a right mess. They have little discernment (if any) and are quite unbalanced.

The telling was very direct, not underhanded. It was stated in no uncertain terms that we are dealing with them inadequately.

It is complicated, and I was not eager to bring this part up since my original question, I think, doesn't depend on this much context. They are neighbors and Godparents to one of our children. I think it was regarded as a duty of sorts on their part. In my opinion the way it was conducted was very poor, but I think the effort could probably be justified even if their judgment and execution were askew (and I believe both were).

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2023, 06:20:21 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 21, 2023, 05:02:53 PM

Has anyone actually read these authors?

I don't think you're gonna find many on a traditional Catholic forum who have actually read some parenting books by an obscure Protestant couple. The Catholic Church has a 2,000 year history of helping parents raise good Christian children. We don't have much, if any, need of advice from independent Baptists. Baptists, along with the equally weird Pentecostals, are about as far removed from orthodox Christianity that you can get without apostasy (save for the modalist "Oneness" Pentecostals). From what you've said here, I'd avoid these books and I'd also politely but firmly tell any of my friends that suggested these books that I am not interested. If they get upset over that, then so be it.

HeartlandCatholic · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2023, 06:20:47 PM »

The above post is me.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2023, 06:56:48 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 21, 2023, 06:20:21 PM

I don't think you're gonna find many on a traditional Catholic forum who have actually read some parenting books by an obscure Protestant couple. The Catholic Church has a 2,000 year history of helping parents raise good Christian children. We don't have much, if any, need of advice from independent Baptists. Baptists, along with the equally weird Pentecostals, are about as far removed from orthodox Christianity that you can get without apostasy (save for the modalist "Oneness" Pentecostals). From what you've said here, I'd avoid these books and I'd also politely but firmly tell any of my friends that suggested these books that I am not interested. If they get upset over that, then so be it.

I guess I was under the impression that trads were generally familiar with this book, which is why I came here. And one poster said he'd heard of it. But now I'm wondering if maybe it's just some strange attachment that just some of the people around me have.

Nadir · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2023, 07:16:21 PM »

Quote from: Änσnymσus on July 21, 2023, 06:10:12 PM

The telling was very direct, not underhanded. It was stated in no uncertain terms that we are dealing with them inadequately.

It is complicated, and I was not eager to bring this part up since my original question, I think, doesn't depend on this much context. They are neighbors and Godparents to one of our children. I think it was regarded as a duty of sorts on their part. In my opinion the way it was conducted was very poor, but I think the effort could probably be justified even if their judgment and execution were askew (and I believe both were).

Their being godparents does allow them to speak with you about how you are doing with raising their godchild (within limits - I have always believed that the role of the godparent is to take responsibility in the case of e.g. the demise of the parent). I would speak with your priest about this.

If you think their efforts are justified, then you may need to make some changes, but not under the direction of some Baptist when the traditional Catholic faith has 2000 years of wisdom on raising children. Again, consult your priest, or at least some wise older Catholic that you feel you can trust.

I can see by this reply that you are quite humble. God bless you for this

Author Topic: Michael and Debbie Pearl (Read 3193 times)

Änσnymσus

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