But Anonymus, then what do i do? Earn it. You need to make her feel like you did when you were dating. When you initially had relations for the first time. Women want to feel like you've earned them, you're her knight in shining armor, you're the leader of her pack, you're the alpha male in her life. You're her castle. Act like it.

A man does not have to earn the rights to what has already been promised to him.

The principle here is that a wife's body belongs as much to her husband as to herself. If she denies her husband the use of her body without grave reason, she is denying him his rights. A man should not have to be the seducer of his own wife!

In this situation, it is absolutely incuмbent upon the wife to submit to the will of her husband. The notion that a man should have to earn what is already his is repugnant. That a man should still have to play to a woman's narcissistic fantasy of being a princess in need of a knight is very silly.

"Emoting" a pious thought? Really? Let's get higher than a proposed theatric.

Yes, emoting.  You make no reference whatsoever to the obligations in justice and charity that spouses have towards one another.

Yes of course, its obvious "Anonymous" is a selfish, fat loser who doesn't know how to communicate or build a romantic relationship with a woman.  He's just demanding sex. What a nutter.

If his wife habitually refuses requests for sex, then of course there is no other possibility than the man is mainly at fault, because he's a loser.  And he shouldn't be asking in an Anonymous subforum about the marriage debt, definitely sinful as hell.

OP, to answer your original question, just reasons for a wife to habitually refuse the procreative act (which would oherwise be a mortal sin) are:

1. He doesn't work out at the gym.

2. He doesn't have enough self-esteem.

3. He needs to be more successful at bringing home the bacon.

4. He doesn't regularly bring her flowers.

5. He doesn't make a habit of saying "I love you."

6. He is selfish for wanting sex.

(You asked for a catechism reference.  Catechism According to the Closet Feminist Traditionalist, Ch.3, Sections 1-6)

Quote from: Guest

Quote from: Guest

When was the last time you told her that you love her?

 

Maybe the attitude that caused this face palm is part of the problem.  

 

The SSPX FAQ addresses this question:here

Conjugal relations are rightly called the "marriage debt", which each spouse owes the other in justice the relations that are apt to engender children. It is this very particular right over one’s body that is given up to one’s spouse by marriage vows. Saint Paul is very explicit about this:

    Let the husband render the debt to his wife, and the wife also in like manner to the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband. And in like manner the husband also hath not power of his own body, but the wife. (I Cor. 7:3 & 4)

A debt in justice obliges under pain when a serious matter or quantity is owed. However, marriage relationships are a serious matter and of great importance. Furthermore, the refusal of the marriage debt may cause a danger of incontinence. Consequently, it is a mortal sin to deprive one’s spouse of these relationships. The typical example of this is when a wife feels that she is justified in withholding the marriage debt because her feelings are hurt, or she is not appreciated enough. However, there is no excuse for the husband to withhold the affection and care for his wife’s feelings, for is responsible for them as head of the family.

However, it is possible for the couple to agree, by mutual consent, to abstain for a short period of time, for example for penance, during Lent. However, it must be by mutual consent, and on the understanding that either spouse can withdraw it at any time. Saint Paul speaks of this also:

    Defraud not one another, except, perhaps, by consent, for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer (I Cor 7:5).

There can, however, be good reasons that excuse a husband or wife from rendering this marriage debt, such as adultery of the other spouse, or unreasonable demands (e.g. frequency, intoxication) or grave danger to health or life (e.g. by the possible communication of infectious diseases), or a husband who refuses to perform his duty of supporting his family (Jone, Moral Theology, pp. 557 & 558). There can also be special circuмstances that reduce the culpability of refusing the marriage debt, so that it is only a venial sin, for example "if the petitioner will readily renounce his right, or if rendering it is only briefly postponed, or when the use of the marriage right is frequent and its refusal is only rare" (ibid).  [Answered by Fr. Peter R. Scott]

Perhaps it will help if the OP's wife reads this and understands that her refusal could be a mortal sin.

I think there is more to this than what the OP is asking.

Perhaps there is more to it.  But it doesn't hurt to answer his question.  No matter what else is going on in the relationship, people ought to have a clear understanding of Church teaching on marriage in general and on the marriage debt.

Quote from: Jaynek

Quote from: Guest

I think there is more to this than what the OP is asking.

Perhaps there is more to it.  But it doesn't hurt to answer his question.  No matter what else is going on in the relationship, people ought to have a clear understanding of Church teaching on marriage in general and on the marriage debt.

I think that when the other problems are addressed in a mutually positive fashion then there wont be this problem of the wife refusing sex.

 

Again, it's all because of "other problems" -- you need to reread the theological excerpts above.

Consequently, it is a mortal sin to deprive one’s spouse of these relationships. The typical example of this is when a wife feels that she is justified in withholding the marriage debt because her feelings are hurt, or she is not appreciated enough.

Jumping into a can of worms here...

Women are emotional.  It's true.  Husbands may not like this and our priests may not understand this, but you can't just say to us "You owe me my debt."  This is a sure way to grow bitterness in a woman's heart.  No matter how true it is that as spouses we owe each other our marriage debt, this doesn't really mean much at midnight when she has to get up at 5 to start her days work.

As married women, many of us stay at home mothers and often separated from our own mothers, we sometimes find ourselves in emotional isolation.  We don't want to be gossips or cause people to look at our husbands unfavorably, but we do need our female friends.  In case you are a man, you should understand something about women---we don't want you to solve our problems--we want you to LISTEN to us.  We don't want lectures and theological condemnation.  We want you to hear us...our concerns, our anxieties, our frustrations.  For Pete's sake, we know about our marriage debt, we really do, but we want you, our husbands, to hear us.

As a former practicer of NFP, I would also caution you on something that happens to many women emotionally.  And here again, I mention feelings.  Women are emotional people, we have feelings.  You should be glad that we do and work with us because it's our emotions and feelings that actually keep our homes warm and our children loved.  When we practiced NFP, I felt like a prostitute.  I felt like my husband only wanted to be with me on certain days depending on how secure or insecure he was at the time.  It was very hurtful and it put a large wedge in our relationship.

Relationships are very complex.  Marriages are very hard.  We aren't perfect and sometimes we expect more from each other than we can give.  Some women and some men are very needy.  Some men and some women are very detached.  Pairing these together can make for a lot of hard work in the intimacy department.

To the OP, I encourage you to really sit down with your wife and LISTEN to her.  It may seem stupid to you, but this is how God made us.  

I don't know what your wife is experiencing.  But if you really want to solve this problem and have a meaningful relationship with your wife, then you will move beyond this idea of lecturing her on her obligations to you, and really start listening to her.