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Author Topic: Does a potential spouse have a right to know sɛҳuąƖ history before marriage?  (Read 55727 times)

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Offline SimpleMan

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  • (my responses in italics with asterisks for ease of reading --- SM)

    You can't tell me a spouse doesn't have a right to know these things about their spouse-to-be. How can you consent to something you don't know? If he's had lots of women in the past,  it's highly likely in this age of DNA tests and the Internet that one of these women will come around seeking child support, or one of his bastard children will want to meet their dad. How would that not screw up a "good Catholic family" he started later with a virgin Catholic woman?

    Think of all the explaining he'd have to do to his legitimate children -- of all ages. How they have brothers and sisters they hadn't met yet for some reason. Think of all the birds-and-bees discussions that would have to take place before the proper time.

    ***How true, how true!  It absolutely tickles the you-know-what out of me, that DNA tests now allow paternity to be proven, as part of the larger picture of gaining knowledge of one's family tree and hitherto unknown distant relatives.  You always know who the mother is, but as for the father... how many men have been duped into raising another man's child?  Isn't that cuckolding in the extreme?  That's why I say, birth control (and even more so, sterilization) allows both husbands and wives to make fools out of each other, because they can have all sorts of sɛҳuąƖ exploits without ever getting caught up, or having fear of unwanted pregnancies.  But what about when it fails, or one or the other strays in a moment of recklessness and doesn't use the BC?  A woman can always pass off the child as her husband's, barring any drastic difference in appearance (most of all an obvious racial one! --- "I can explain, dear, my family was Dark Irish!" :jester:) --- and the man who fathered the child, without paternity testing, is likewise scot-free.

    Now here's a soap opera for you.  Recently I got my son an AncestryDNA test, like the one I took myself about a year ago.  Sure enough, my son is absolutely, positively, infallibly mine, but... lo and behold, in the past month or so, guess what, I've got a new cousin out there, that I'd never heard of before, and I know who all my first and second cousins are (or I thought I did!).  The number of centimorgans (DNA markers, or something like that) is right on the cusp of his being my full-blood first cousin, or a first cousin once removed.  IOW, he is the son of either one of my four blood uncles (more likely), or one of my male first cousins (less likely).  Three of my four blood uncles had, ahem, issues with fidelity, one very much so.  My male first cousins, all over the map, from relative chastity to absolutely whoremongery.  Interesting family. The question "who could his father have been?" has been a huge topic of discussion with my parents the past few days.  (I have long ago drifted apart from my extended family, that happens when people move, don't see each other, and die.)  For us, it's merely a point of speculation. But think about the poor man who is my hitherto unknown cousin! In all likelihood, he's gone his whole life, thinking that his father is someone that he really wasn't!  Talk about getting emotionally hit by a semi-truck!  (My son knows it all, knows everything about "the birds and the bees" that it is possible to know --- very curious kid --- and I was able to use this as an object lesson in chastity, IOW, "keep it zipped!".)


    Oh, and if I were a young lady, I would definitely do my DUE DILIGENCE and look into the man's past. Look him up on social media, pose as a high school friend and see what you can find out, etc. I'd probably pay the $30 or $60 fee to do a background check. Or a few hundred dollars for a private investigator. Think that's excessive? You can't be too careful these days. We're talking about avoiding a life of misery, loneliness (divorced but can't remarry), poverty, strife, etc.  I think a few hundred dollars would be well spent to avoid that! Oh, and as a bonus (since you never married "the wrong guy"), you might also GET a nice Catholic man, loving family, beautiful Catholic household, many beautiful well-raised Catholic children, grandchildren, etc. as a bonus! A few hundred dollars sounds like a bargain now...

    ***You will never waste money on a good private detective.  Without getting too specific, I had reason to hire a PI, as well as an attorney who obtained some information for me that, let's just say, I'm not supposed to know.  It was to protect a family member.  Cost me $450 in all, and boy oh boy, was it ever worth every penny! If you ever even think there's an issue that needs looking into, do it.  Hire that PI.  I know.  How well do I know!  And there was another incident in my life where I didn't hire a PI --- didn't want to spend the money (oooh, that's right, gotta save that money, don't spend that money) --- and I could have saved myself a lot of heartache, if I had hired one.  It's water under the bridge now, but it could have saved not only me, but people I care about, a ton of suffering.  Let me repeat.  Hire that PI.

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  • "Virginity tests" are impossible to do on a man.  The conventional wisdom nowadays, is that demanding physical evidence of a woman's non-virginity (i.e., intact hymen) is an injustice, because any number of things can happen --- she might be born without one, it might be defective in some way, it may have been torn open through some physical injury, or what have you.  On the other hand, the wisdom nowadays is that some women's hymens can remain intact after intercourse --- not to get too crude, but they "stretch" --- and that hymens can grow back together.  Both would be more likely "if she'd only done it once or twice", as many claim.  Being jaundiced as I am about any propaganda coming from the secularized world, and a world that cares nothing about premarital virginity, I suspect that the "conventional wisdom" is exaggerated (to help women concoct lies about themselves, and to "slap" men to whom such things are important), but not entirely false.  Think of the non-Western cultures that demand premarital examination, and the consequences for women in those cultures who have lost or damaged their hymens through no fault of their own.
    Oh bullshit. I've been hearing that crap about women "riding horses or playing sports" for decades. Almost no women riding horses and very few women play sports. Also, what kind of sports would break a hymen?


    Offline SimpleMan

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  • Oh bullshit. I've been hearing that crap about women "riding horses or playing sports" for decades. Almost no women riding horses and very few women play sports. Also, what kind of sports would break a hymen?
    Actually, your thoughts echo my own to a large extent --- I've had to roll my eyes at the "riding accident" scenario myself (just anecdotal, I've never heard anyone claim that) --- but that said, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt in certain cases.  It's my understanding that the fragility of women's hymens varies widely.  I do realize, also, that in less sɛҳuąƖly liberal times, many women felt the need to have a "cover story" to explain their lack of intactness to their husbands.  Perhaps nowadays, that kind of bullshit, as you put it, isn't seen as being nearly as necessary.

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  • Because pornography use by men has the similar effect against pair-bonding that pre-marital sex has on women. We have been told by our priests that one use of porn can destroy a man's natural attraction for real women for life.  That will ruin a marriage.
    Take it from a former porn/self-abuse addict: the destruction of the man's natural attraction for women is NOT "for life". It bounces back within days and within months the porn-addled mindset, which usually causes fetishistic desires, is gone. Don't believe me? Look up the NoPorn and NoFap movements. Hundreds of thousands of secular men are fighting their battles with porn and self-abuse. Even science shows that the "rewiring" that porn does to the brain is undone when porn is no longer used. I also disagree that looking at pictures destructs pair-bonding, similarly to what fornication does to women. I think most any trad woman would prefer that her potential husband watched porn and self-abused thousands of times rather than fornicated with even one woman. I think men would agree in the opposite situation. Those priests are wrong on those points.
    However, porn and self-abuse during a marriage can destroy it. Aside from taking away the man's desire for his wife, it can also cause him to pressure his wife into fetishes (uncomfortable in the least or physically/morally dangerous at worst) to satiate his porn-addled brain. It will cause the man to spend time away from work and his children. Not to mention the destruction of spiritual graces or even demonic activity that mortal sin brings.

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  • It's definitely something they need to know before committing to you for the rest of their lives. Omitting the truth can often be just as bad as lying. 


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  • It's definitely something they need to know before committing to you for the rest of their lives. Omitting the truth can often be just as bad as lying.
    People have cited two priests that have said otherwise. That's much more compelling than your opinion.

    Offline SimpleMan

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  • People have cited two priests that have said otherwise. That's much more compelling than your opinion.
    Well, that may be true, but we are all our own free agents, we all have lives to live and try to make sure they turn out halfway right, and just for my part, I'd want to know, at least in broad brushstrokes, and I would both be willing to, and be willing to be expected to, paint my own broad brushstrokes.  If I were single in the Eyes of God, and contemplating marriage, my intended and I would, at some point, be having the "now, there aren't going to be any 'Easter eggs' come up one of these days than neither of us expect, something or someone that could pop out of the woodwork, are there? --- anything that I'd want to know about now, instead of finding out later, right?". 

    Again, if in doubt --- or maybe even if there is no doubt --- just do yourself a favor, and hire that PI.  If you don't, and it blows up in your face later, at least some stranger on the Internet will have warned you.  If you do, and nothing ever comes of it, no harm, no foul, the $450 you'll spend is about the price of a halfway-good-quality suit of clothes.

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  • People have cited two priests that have said otherwise. That's much more compelling than your opinion.
    Priests don't get married. Cheers!


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  • "Virginity tests" are impossible to do on a man.  The conventional wisdom nowadays, is that demanding physical evidence of a woman's non-virginity (i.e., intact hymen) is an injustice, because any number of things can happen --- she might be born without one, it might be defective in some way, it may have been torn open through some physical injury, or what have you.  

    And what's the problem? If the man is demanding what the woman judges as not just, the woman will reject him. You're talking about a non-issue. 

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  • Priests don't get married. Cheers!
    That's a Prot argument. Might as well ignore all moral theology about sex, since priests don't have sex, right? Hell, why listen to them on marriage at all? I want to divorce my haggard old wife and marry my hot young secretary. 

    Offline Nadir

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  • Again, if in doubt --- or maybe even if there is no doubt --- just do yourself a favor, and hire that PI.  If you don't, and it blows up in your face later,
    If you are so inclined to hire someone to spy on her then she should not marry YOU. I would never trust a man who had such little trust in me. Better not to marry at all. Or find another man.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Offline SimpleMan

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  • If you are so inclined to hire someone to spy on her then she should not marry YOU. I would never trust a man who had such little trust in me. Better not to marry at all. Or find another man.
    She'd never know.  If my investigation turned up nothing, no harm done.  If it did turn up an unknown deal-killer, then better to know, and then move on.  I would not have a problem in the world with being investigated, without my knowledge, by a potential spouse.  In fact, in today's world, especially when people often marry someone they haven't known until they were in their twenties, thirties, forties, or even beyond, I think a woman who did not have me investigated, would be just a little naive.  Wouldn't bother me in the least.  If she never told me, then I'd never know (just to state the obvious).  If she did tell me, I'd say "you didn't know me from childhood, I don't blame you in the least, shows me you've got a good head on your shoulders".  Different people have a problem, or don't have a problem, with different things.

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  • If you are so inclined to hire someone to spy on her then she should not marry YOU. I would never trust a man who had such little trust in me. Better not to marry at all. Or find another man.
    It's a catch-22. If you marry a woman without investigating, then you risk marrying someone you wouldn't want to marry. But if you investigate a woman you intend to marry, then you run the risk of her not liking that you had her investigated.
    I'd rather take the latter risk.

    Offline SimpleMan

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  • It's a catch-22. If you marry a woman without investigating, then you risk marrying someone you wouldn't want to marry. But if you investigate a woman you intend to marry, then you run the risk of her not liking that you had her investigated.
    I'd rather take the latter risk.
    As I said above --- don't tell her.  Private investigators don't go to the people they've investigated and say "hey, I investigated you".  Who else is going to tell?  The banker on whom you wrote the check to pay the PI?  You don't find out anything, nothing comes of the investigation, then no harm done.  Find out something, then you know.

    And this must be said, the question that begs to be asked and answered, is whether a PI could ever find out whether someone was a virgin or not.  That's pretty private stuff.  And even if they're not, finding out the extent of their sɛҳuąƖ history is getting information that some people just don't discuss with anyone.  PIs don't have some kind of "magic wand" or access to secret information that only they (and possibly the police, if it's a criminal matter) have access to.  When I had a certain person investigated to protect the welfare of a family member, I asked the PI.  She said "aside from things tied to social security numbers, credit, and the like, we don't have access to anything, that you wouldn't have access to, if you were willing to spend some time on it, and do things like set up fake social media accounts to tap into their private sites" (or words to that effect).  Between the PI and the attorney with whom I was working, I eliminated my worst fears, but I found out a lot of stuff I wouldn't otherwise have known, information that was very useful to me, in assessing the risk to that family member.  That, coupled with my own online sleuthing, left me with a high level of peace of mind.  Well worth it.

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  • A man who would insist that a potential spouse spread for the doctor to verify physical integrity is shameful.