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Author Topic: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?  (Read 4117 times)

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Änσnymσus

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Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2023, 09:34:35 AM »
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  • Mail a blessed crucifix for the baby.  But don’t go.  

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #46 on: September 29, 2023, 03:07:15 PM »
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  • So, if a couple is adopting a baby via arrangement with a pregnant young lady who can’t raise the child, going to the shower implies my approval of fornication, adultery, rape, or even incest?  Then I guess I committed a serious sin in going to the baby shower of an unborn child being adopted by the woman’s drug addict sister.  This child is the second such baby they’ve adopted.  The birth fathers and circuмstances of conception of both children is unknown.  DNA testing reveals only that the elder child is of Northern European and German heritage.  The second is German and East Asian, possibly Vietnamese.  The boy, baby no.1, is normal. The girl, baby #2 was born with brain damage and is developmentally disabled.  Both children are baptized and being raised Catholic. 
    But even if not, I don’t understand not celebrating the arrival of a baby because of how he was conceived.  My only question for the OP is their association with the couple.  Is it a relative?  A neighbor?  Colleagues from work or school?  Someone from before you became Catholic?  Would you attend if you didn’t know about the IVF?  (I agree it is in bad taste to announce such a thing, but people these days have little to no sense of decorum.  A look on any social media makes that obvious.)
    If the couple themselves disturbs you too much to attend, then at least send a card and a small gift for the actual baby. 
    In that case, the adopting couple did not commit sin. It was the drug addict sister that did the sin, so that is fine to attend the baby shower, but in the case that was originally brought up, it the couple that committed the sin and is having the baby shower. So, the two cases are different.


    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #47 on: September 29, 2023, 05:02:18 PM »
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  • Stay home because many of these people are getting needles 

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #48 on: September 29, 2023, 07:01:31 PM »
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  • Stay home because many of these people are getting needles
    You mean for the C-sickness?  I had the C-sickness naturally, recovered, am not afraid of it.If I were, I’d be at home, isolating myself, wearing a mask, etc.  

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #49 on: September 30, 2023, 01:42:04 AM »
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  • OP here: I asked 5 traditional priests, and 3 responded with 3 different answers. 
    This is why "ask a priest" is often terrible advice. It should be "ask a holy and well-formed priest if you have one"


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #50 on: September 30, 2023, 08:15:41 AM »
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  • This is why "ask a priest" is often terrible advice. It should be "ask a holy and well-formed priest if you have one"

    Given the state of the Church, "ask a priest" is worthless advice where it comes to theological approaches to the Crisis.  I might make sense with regard to established questions of theology, like asking a priest about the Holy Trinity or Immaculate Conception, etc.  But questions about whether SVism is right or R&R, the answer will depend on which group the priest belongs to.

    Same goes with moral theology, as in general they're probably educated in many of the core principles, but where it comes to applying them to concrete situations, and prudential judgments, you'll probably get answers all over the map.

    And, sadly, there are many seminary-trained priests who simply didn't absorb much of what they were taught there.  I've known priests ordained through SSPX who didn't know 10% as much as your average poster on CathInfo.  And I've known a few priests who were ordained prior to Vatican II whose knowledge did not exceed the contents of the Baltimore Catechism.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #51 on: September 30, 2023, 08:22:00 AM »
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  • So, if a couple is adopting a baby via arrangement with a pregnant young lady who can’t raise the child, going to the shower implies my approval of fornication, adultery, rape, or even incest?  Then I guess I committed a serious sin in going to the baby shower of an unborn child being adopted by the woman’s drug addict sister.

    That makes no sense.  As I said, it's the context that matters.   This couple adopting the child are doing something praiseworthy.  You're celebrating this couple welcoming the child into their family, not the original circuмstances of how the baby was produced.  Now, if the couple who were throwing the baby shower had conceived the child through adultery or fornication, that's not something to celebrate, but adoption by a different couple, the context of what you'd be celebrating, is a completely different thing.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #52 on: September 30, 2023, 06:40:07 PM »
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  • And, sadly, there are many seminary-trained priests who simply didn't absorb much of what they were taught there.  I've known priests ordained through SSPX who didn't know 10% as much as your average poster on CathInfo.  And I've known a few priests who were ordained prior to Vatican II whose knowledge did not exceed the contents of the Baltimore Catechism.

    That would exceed the knowledge of many a post-Vatican II priest.


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #53 on: September 30, 2023, 06:42:04 PM »
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  • OP here: Talking to them would do no good, they are so warped.  They think IVF science is glorious.  Shame never enters the mind.  It’s “medical” so it’s not self-abuse, they rationalize, it’s”a procedure.” 

    The sin has been sanitized, and the shame with it.

    As an example of how far gone they are, here’s a pic they posted on their Facebook page:




    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #54 on: September 30, 2023, 08:37:49 PM »
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  • I have a cousin who had a double lung transplant.  (No, not Catholic.)  Do I rebuke her for being alive and refuse to associate with her?  You can’t undo a lung transplant.  (Well, you can, but the doctor who does it is guilty of murder and my cousin and those that approve are guilty of ѕυιcιdє or aiding in ѕυιcιdє and murder!)  What about her daughter?  Her grandkids?  Her husband?  These are not people I see on any kind of regular basis, but I’ve often wondered where to draw the line. 

    Is it my duty to correct the sins of distant relatives?  What about getting a list of people who have designated themselves organ donors on their auto licenses?  I used to check people’s licenses all day when I was a cashier and they wanted to pay by check or credit card.  Should I have corrected or rebuked each one, and if that wasn’t feasible, quit my job? 

     Now what is wrong with being an organ donor? Why do you care people have it on their license? The only people I have heard rejecting organ donation POST MORTEM are jehovas witness. In what world is it wrong to donate organs you no longer need (because you are dead)?? 

    Offline Emile

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #55 on: September 30, 2023, 10:30:33 PM »
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  • Now what is wrong with being an organ donor? Why do you care people have it on their license? The only people I have heard rejecting organ donation POST MORTEM are jehovas witness. In what world is it wrong to donate organs you no longer need (because you are dead)??
    Because the donors aren't actually dead. Vital organs are not viable for transplant if decomposition has begun so the idea of "brain death" was introduced.
    One of the very few teaching about this reality is Dr. Paul Byrne. I think you will find that your time was well spent in listening to what he has to say:



    https://lifeguardianfoundation.org/

    If you are short on time: https://lifeguardianfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Organ-donation-Question-4-14-17.pdf
    I hold it true, whate'er befall;
    I feel it, when I sorrow most;
    'Tis better to have loved and lost
    Than never to have loved at all.
    (In Memoriam A. H. H., 27.13-17 Alfred, Lord Tennyson)


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #56 on: September 30, 2023, 10:40:35 PM »
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  • Now what is wrong with being an organ donor? Why do you care people have it on their license? The only people I have heard rejecting organ donation POST MORTEM are jehovas witness. In what world is it wrong to donate organs you no longer need (because you are dead)??
    The problem with organ donation is that, in many cases, the “donor is not POST MORTOM, but living and anaesthetised. 
    There are some donations, such as the eyes, which can succeed after the donor dies.
    Some donations, such as one kidney, can come from living donors who continue to live after the donation.
    but no donation of a singular organ, such as the heart, can succeed without extracting the organ while the “donor” is alive, thus killing him.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Änσnymσus

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    Re: Attend Baby Shower of IVF Conception?
    « Reply #57 on: September 30, 2023, 10:46:58 PM »
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  • Dear Anonymous,

    Read the answers of Emile and Nadir.  (Thanks, you two!:laugh2::laugh1:)