Author Topic: A wicked and adulterous generation (Read 9106 times)

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #15 on:** March 19, 2013, 11:21:57 PM »

Quote from: Guest

What good is jurisdiction if the pope in rome is embracing heresy?

Jurisdiction during a time of heresy is as good as a walking cane on the Titanic!

Gee, now I totally get how sedevacantism is so logical! :-D

To say that jurisdiction "is no good" (whatever that means) is a baneful error, injurious to the Apostolic note of the Church established by Christ and to the hierarchical structure that is the very nature of the Church.

If the Church could be without ordinary jurisdiction, then the Church would fail and overcome by the infernal forces. That would make Christ a liar (absit!).

The structure of the Church and the dogmas pertaining to Apostolic mission and jurisdiction are coextensive and indissolubly united.

The traditionalist movement is only meant to be an transitory and ephemeral phase in preparation for the great restoration of the Church and Christendom. It is not to be identified as the Church.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2013, 11:48:33 AM »

Quote from: Guest

Quote from: Guest
What good is jurisdiction if the pope in rome is embracing heresy?

Jurisdiction during a time of heresy is as good as a walking cane on the Titanic!

Gee, now I totally get how sedevacantism is so logical! :-D

To say that jurisdiction "is no good" (whatever that means) is a baneful error, injurious to the Apostolic note of the Church established by Christ and to the hierarchical structure that is the very nature of the Church.

If the Church could be without ordinary jurisdiction, then the Church would fail and overcome by the infernal forces. That would make Christ a liar (absit!).

The structure of the Church and the dogmas pertaining to Apostolic mission and jurisdiction are coextensive and indissolubly united.

The traditionalist movement is only meant to be an transitory and ephemeral phase in preparation for the great restoration of the Church and Christendom. It is not to be identified as the Church.

What does cuм ex apostolotas say?

Does a spreader of heresy have jurisdiction?

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2013, 11:50:55 AM »

It's true that Our Lord Jesus Christ is not a liar but He also is not our slave.

What else is in the New Testament? Doesn't Christ call Peter "Satan"?

Did Our Lord, while hanging on the cross, look up and chastise Our Lady and the Beloved Apostle for not following Peter?

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2013, 11:59:13 AM »

Quote from: Guest

The traditionalist movement is only meant to be an transitory and ephemeral phase in preparation for the great restoration of the Church and Christendom. It is not to be identified as the Church.

Two Questions:

(1) Where is "The Church" during a time of such heresy as we are possibly presently in?

(2) If the Trads are carrying on the Church and it's divine mission, wouldn't they be the link that connects the pre-Vatican II Holy Church with the Restored Holy Church at a future date?

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2013, 09:22:46 PM »

Quote from: Guest

Quote from: Guest

The traditionalist movement is only meant to be an transitory and ephemeral phase in preparation for the great restoration of the Church and Christendom. It is not to be identified as the Church.

Two Questions:

(1) Where is "The Church" during a time of such heresy as we are possibly presently in?

(2) If the Trads are carrying on the Church and it's divine mission, wouldn't they be the link that connects the pre-Vatican II Holy Church with the Restored Holy Church at a future date?

1) Pray and you will get the answer.

2) No: there is no "divine mission" outside of Apostolic mission. The claim of "extraordinary mission" was made by the Protestant innovators, as St. Francis de Sales wrote in The Catholic Controversy, and there can be no such thing as an "extraordinary mission" without extraordinary proofs of such a thing. Even Our Lord vouchsafed to prove the reality of His mission to the Jєωιѕн Pontiffs, scribes and doctors of the law, by His teaching, miracles, sanctity, &c. This is because in true religion (the Catholic Church), mission is indispensable.

All the Trads can do is preserve the faith persevere in the profession and practice thereof until God deems fit to restore His Church and Christendom in general.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #20 on:** March 22, 2013, 12:44:05 PM »

Quote from: Guest

Quote from: Guest
Quote from: Guest

The traditionalist movement is only meant to be an transitory and ephemeral phase in preparation for the great restoration of the Church and Christendom. It is not to be identified as the Church.

Two Questions:

(1) Where is "The Church" during a time of such heresy as we are possibly presently in?

(2) If the Trads are carrying on the Church and it's divine mission, wouldn't they be the link that connects the pre-Vatican II Holy Church with the Restored Holy Church at a future date?

1) Pray and you will get the answer.

2) No: there is no "divine mission" outside of Apostolic mission. The claim of "extraordinary mission" was made by the Protestant innovators, as St. Francis de Sales wrote in The Catholic Controversy, and there can be no such thing as an "extraordinary mission" without extraordinary proofs of such a thing. Even Our Lord vouchsafed to prove the reality of His mission to the Jєωιѕн Pontiffs, scribes and doctors of the law, by His teaching, miracles, sanctity, &c. This is because in true religion (the Catholic Church), mission is indispensable.

All the Trads can do is preserve the faith persevere in the profession and practice thereof until God deems fit to restore His Church and Christendom in general.

Preserving the faith in a time of widespread corruption is "divine" in the extent that it preserves the Catholic Faith.

I'm not one to argue with St. Francis de Sales but he didn't he say something to the effect that it's okay to alert the faithful when the wolf appears?

Once this period of diabolicial disorientation is over, the entire Church should stand and applaud the trads just like the Frodo Baggins and the other three hobbits were applauded at the end of "LOTR: Return of the King" because of their heroic faith and steadfastness.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #21 on:** March 22, 2013, 08:59:41 PM »

Quote from: Guest

Preserving the faith in a time of widespread corruption is "divine" in the extent that it preserves the Catholic Faith.

Yes, because it by divine grace that man does anything supernaturally meritorious, but it is not "divine" in the same sense as in the divinely constituted Apostolic hierarchy preserving and teaching the faith ex officio.

Quote

I'm not one to argue with St. Francis de Sales but he didn't he say something to the effect that it's okay to alert the faithful when the wolf appears?

Yes, but the traditionalist clergy and laity must be aware of the present absence of Canonical office or mission on their end in order to have clarity and stability so that they may correctly recognize the "wolf" and efficiently point out what exactly is it that makes him a "wolf" and also that they may not lapse into the error of the "Church Population: Me" mindset.

Quote

Once this period of diabolicial disorientation is over, the entire Church should stand and applaud the trads just like the Frodo Baggins and the other three hobbits were applauded at the end of "LOTR: Return of the King" because of their heroic faith and steadfastness.

I've never seen The Lord of the Rings, but...

Yes, those traditionalists who preserved the Catholic faith and persevered in the profession and practice thereof will be applauded, and the ministries of such clerics will be duly acknowledged retroactively. However, this is on the condition that these layfolk and clerics did not pretend to make up their own novelties and pass them off the "traditional faith" or that they fell into formal heresy or schism (e.g., denying the Apostolicity of the Church, denying the Sacraments to other Catholics in such wise so as to exceed their already limited Canonical competence, &c.).

Centuries after this era, fierce debates will arise amongst moral theologians, canonists, casuists, &c., regarding who was wrong, who was right, why they were wrong or right, should they have done what they did at all, &c. By then the Church will have defined certain theological questions that are being disputed or questioned now, so those theologians will way better off than any of us are now.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #22 on:** March 22, 2013, 10:50:27 PM »

I, for one, do not think the debate of the future will be fierce at all. Not even slightly.

How many people are fiercely arguing for the righteousness of Judas? Or arguing on behalf of the Arians?

No one today is extolling the virtues of the iconoclasts of the 8th century, are they?

This period of diabolical disorientation where pope Paul vi and his men deliberately altered Our Lord's words of consecration and deliberately touched so as to despoil every facet of Catholicism... I don't think, God willing, that future theologians will have a hard time spotting the errors, heresies and even apostasy...

And this current pope is reported to have encouraged some Anglicans to not convert to Catholicism but to remain because their church needs them... ...a future pope encouraged non-Catholics to stay outside the church... He must really believe that the church no longer adheres to the maxim that outside the church there is no salvation. It's either that or he is pleased to see people agree to the loss of their own salvation which means that he may not have other people's best intentions in mind...

No, the discussions aren't going to be fierce but, if those theologians are God-fearing, they will spend several hours praying for the souls of those responsible for our present condition. And they will probably get together often for these very same prayer intentions. I hope they are such charitable men.

Änσnymσus · « **Reply #23 on:** March 23, 2013, 01:03:56 PM »

Quote from: Guest

I, for one, do not think the debate of the future will be fierce at all. Not even slightly.

The "fierce debates" in the distant future amongst theologians, canonists, casuists, &c., will dwell upon what gradation of theological censure certain errors, mistakes, remiss acts, or even outright heretical and schismatical acts, of certain clerics and layfolk would have incurred, &c.

I think most of them will agree that the majority of the traditionalists were earnest and simple-hearted, but there will be disagreements on the particulars regarding "who," "why," "how," "whence" &c.

Obviously, I don't think we are in the end times. According to some of the Fathers, the vacant seats of the apostate Angels must be filled by the elect forechosen by God to have been the object of His predilection and therefore given the graces necessary for the profession and practice of the Catholic faith.

Since even in the "good ol' days" the number of the saved was very small, in our dark and devastated age even less souls cooperate with grace and therefore reprobate themselves to eternal damnation.

It follows that the vacancy of the apostate Angels is not yet near fulfillment, especially since the signs foretelling the imminent end of the world have not been the seen (especially the conversion of the Jews, I don't think that's anywhere near our time, speaking naturally).

So, this is not the "Great Apostasy." Worse, much worse, is yet to come in the coming centuries...

Author Topic: A wicked and adulterous generation (Read 9106 times)

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