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Anonymous

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A wicked and adulterous generation
« on: October 09, 2012, 01:45:13 AM »
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  • If you think Bp. Fellay and the accordistas have no precedent in the traditionalist movement, you are wrong: the sedevacantists in the States have made their own "Opus Fellay" for years.

    The cult-like behavior, the managerial incompetence, the lack of theological depth, etc., on part of the sedevacantist clergy have made some laymen reconsider their stance and whether they have been in the Church or in some cult.

    So, this past Sunday, Bp. Dolan made the following announcement in his Sunday Bulletin at SGG:

    Quote
    Remember our friends who left us to follow Fr. Ramolla three years ago. He has returned to Germany, having had himself made a bishop. The remnants of their group have joined Bishop Pivarunas and His Excellency happily gave them St. Therese of the Child Jesus as their patroness, leaving St. Albert the Great (a great peacemaker) again to us. His statue has been honored in the sanctuary all the way through. St. Therese protected us in an extraordinary fashion during this crisis (Merci, Sainte Thèrése!) and I know she will bless and protect them as well. They have a Sunday evening Mass now at the Holiday Inn in Sharonville, where the St. Gertrude priests used to stay years ago when we first bought the church. Small world! Bishop Pivarunas tells us that eventually their mission will move to a permanent location north of Cincinnati.

    One of the blessings (and it is important to search for them) coming out of this sad and long division is that it has helped our friends at Immaculate Conception to move away from their policy of denying Holy Communion to some Catholics. More and more of our Cincinnati Catholics (Catholic, that is “traditional Catholic”) tend to float among St. Gertrude, Little Flower and Immaculate Conception anymore. While not a good thing, it is understandable. Now, it would be difficult or impossible to keep track of this migrant population, and deny the Sacraments as needed. (Talk about “porous borders.”) The Berlin Wall seems to be coming down brick by brick. This is something for which to be thankful. Still, it really is best for stability’s sake for our Catholics to have one spiritual home, which they generally attend and faithfully support. Nevertheless, we welcome our visitors who come for a variety of reasons, and it is good to know that this is becoming the de facto policy of other churches, too. “I was a stranger, and you took me in.”


    Bp. Pivarunas was so quick to make secure a "moral victory" over Fr./Bp. Ramolla, and to take "vengeance" on the imagined and fantastically propagated wrongs that his Seminary supposedly took from the ex-Seminarians whom he did not even deem fit to expel himself directly.

    I keep seeing a pattern now: it is the same as with Bp. Sanborn and how he readily pays retribution for anyone who dares to touch his cat-littered "Seminary."

    Everyone is in it for themselves, I guess.

    The thing I don't get is how long does Bp. Pivarunas think he can keep overworking himself and the Priests who regard him as "Superior"? It does not make sense how he would step into the "Ohio Traddieland Circus" at this point and not back in 2009 when people were begging him to send a Priest down there.

    It's curious, because:

    A. It seems he wanted to cement the revisionist and libelous version of what really happened in 2011 with the Seminarians whom he had expelled vicariously, which he "promulgated" at last year's Fatima Conference, so Fr. Gregory was sent to Fairfield.

    B. The fact that Fr. Oswalt chose St. Michael's over Brooksville (a wise move that saved his vocation and overall sanity) went straight to Bp. Pivarunas's head and now he thinks he and "his" Priests are to "Traddieland" what the USA attempts to be for the rest of the world.

    C. The humiliation of Bp. Ramolla and Bp. Slupski was surely a source of glee for the Senior clerics of the CMRI, and now this will help bring some sort of "peace" between the CMRI and Rialto Road; the latter having been so much discredited, that the CMRI now feels confident to approach them.

    D. This is despite the fact that Bp. Sanborn, with the tacit or express consent of Bp. Dolan and Fr. Cekada, forbids his Seminarians from attending CMRI Chapels.

    E. Bp. Pivarunas needs to focus on putting his own house in order, instead of playing "Cops" in "Traddieland." The Priests are getting too overworked, and too spread thin, leaving them no time or energy to use for doing their own research on controversial matters. For example, some CMRI Priests have been telling the laity that Bp. Kelly's Orders are invalid, and that they must therefore avoid the SSPV: they rehash the "research" Fr. Cekada makes, and they rely solely on third-hand reports. So, now that the CMRI is no longer the "punching bag" of "Traddieland," the SSPV have been given that role.

    F. Those who remained at Scheeler's "church" (formerly known as St. Albert's) have been circulating the ridiculous articles that Fr. Cekada wrote against some Priests at Immaculate Conception, as a tool to confuse and divide their former Chapel-goers. And this with the tacit or express sanction of the CMRI.


    -------------------------



    So, I don't get it.

    How can this be the Catholic Church?

    If sedevacantism makes so much "sense," why then does it produce such miserable and ridiculous theatrics?

    I guess when Abbot Leonard died, hope for this sedevacantist movement died with him.

    It's just a bunch of mitre-bearers (Pivarunas, Sanborn, Dolan, Ramolla) who make it up as they go along, and seek self-aggrandizement in the name of the Church.

    They attack Bp. Slupski, for example, for the very thing Bp. McKenna had been doing for years and years: how come no one made any bulletin announcements when Ryan Scott was "ordained" by McKenna?

    This is sick.

    I hope people who are considering sedevacantist chapels as alternatives to "Opus Fellay" are aware that it's the same darn thing really. Just go there if you must, but don't get too involved in the theatrics and politics. Distance is a great thing when it comes to these matters.

    And I hope the sedevacantists take a good look at themselves and at their Priests and Bishops before they start telling the SSPX-ers what to do and how to think. They are in no position to tell people how to avoid a cult like "Opus Fellay."

    Anonymous

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 01:48:11 AM »
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  • Someone wrote this on another thread:


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    The CMRI Fathers, together with the layfolk who have entrusted themselves to their pastoral care, have endeavored to seek peace in the traditionalist movement. However, what can be interpreted as scrupulosity and naivete seem to blind a number of them to the harsh reality that true and lasting peace cannot simply be "political." It has to be born out of trust, and honesty, and understanding, and most importantly a will on both sides to work for the greater glory of God and the eternal welfare of souls. Currently that will does not seem to exist in certain lay and clerical pundits, making any peace between such clerics as the CMRI Priests and the amateur dilettantes of the Rialto Rd./Brooksville cult fraudulent at best.

    There can be no tranquility amongst Catholics so long as good Priests look the other way when souls are being marginalized and demoralized by the antics of the incompetent and malicious clerics who are making Holy Mother Church into a whore for their pet theories and aberrant praxes that are ultimately egocentric kitsch at best.

    This is why this "movement" is going nowhere... and the good guys are to blame.



    Who cares about integrity, right? As long as you smile for the cameras in clerical dress, and write nice articles, and say pleasant things, the "Church" is alright, right!?

     :facepalm:


    Offline Sigismund

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #2 on: October 10, 2012, 06:31:48 PM »
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  • How is Fr. Ramolla "having himself made a bishop" any different from The then Fr. Dolan having himself made a bishop?  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Anonymous

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #3 on: October 10, 2012, 09:22:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    How is Fr. Ramolla "having himself made a bishop" any different from The then Fr. Dolan having himself made a bishop?  


    There is really no difference, insofar as theological principles are concerned.

    However, there is a big difference according to "Traddieland" politics: the "majority" of the mitre-bearers and biretta-wielders who present themselves publicly as they were the authoritative representatives for the sedevacantists make arbitrary choices of whose Orders are "valid" or "acceptable," according to what best serves their own interests and helps the organizations, which they lead or are a part thereof, expand and absorb more minds, hearts and wallets.

    So, CMRI and Rialto Road, together with the Sanbornites, decide that what Bp. McKenna did was okay, but what Bp. Slupski is doing is not, despite the fact that is the same exact thing: ordaining and consecrating Priests and Bishops for the faithful. Not that it is necessarily a good thing to do it as they did, but if one condemns the latter then one should be consistent enough to condemn the former, and if one is to praise the former then one should likewise praise the former.

    Of course, charity and prudence are virtues for which these sedevacantist clergy are renowned.

    Now the Sanbornite lemmings are saying to "avoid" Bp. Ramolla is the safest course, citing the same propoganda that Dolan and Cekada have been spewing in the States and Europe.


    Anonymous

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #4 on: October 10, 2012, 09:27:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Now the Sanbornite lemmings are saying to "avoid" Bp. Ramolla is the safest course, citing the same propoganda that Dolan and Cekada have been spewing in the States and Europe.


    The sick irony is that Sanborn is a formal schismatic for breaking communion with the CMRI and his little "Jonestown" in Florida is poisoning the "movement."

    His Masses should be avoided for exactly the same reasons whereby he erroneously argues against Catholics attending the so-called "una cum" Masses: it would be communicatio in sacris to attend the Mass of a schismatic that has cut himself off the Mystical Body of Christ.

    I'm sorry, but the SSPX (non-Opus Fellay) would be a far better and wiser choice.





    Anonymous

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #5 on: October 10, 2012, 10:39:13 PM »
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    The sick irony is that Sanborn is a formal schismatic for breaking communion with the CMRI




    Thank you for this absurd definition of what it means to be a formal schismatic.

     :scratchchin:

    Anonymous

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #6 on: October 10, 2012, 10:53:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote
    The sick irony is that Sanborn is a formal schismatic for breaking communion with the CMRI




    Thank you for this absurd definition of what it means to be a formal schismatic.

     :scratchchin:



    The poster should have expressed himself more clearly: not that the CMRI is the Church (Deo gratias) but that their clergy are Catholic and therefore part of the Church and forbidding Seminarians to attend their Chapels constitutes schism, since Sanborn doesn't question the Thuc line or the sedevacantist position:

    Quote from: OP
    D. This is despite the fact that Bp. Sanborn, with the tacit or express consent of Bp. Dolan and Fr. Cekada, forbids his Seminarians from attending CMRI Chapels.


    Sanborn has always been a "world unto himself" as some Priests have said, but it can be more correctly said that he is "a Church unto himself" since he seems to think he has the authority to decide what Masses Catholics should be attending ("una cum," CMRI, &c.).


    Anonymous

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #7 on: October 18, 2012, 08:13:21 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Sanborn has always been a "world unto himself" as some Priests have said, but it can be more correctly said that he is "a Church unto himself" since he seems to think he has the authority to decide what Masses Catholics should be attending ("una cum," CMRI, &c.).


    YES!

    There've been some reforms at Brooksville, but too little too late I'm afraid...



    Offline Sigismund

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #8 on: October 18, 2012, 09:40:16 PM »
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    Quote from: Guest
    Now the Sanbornite lemmings are saying to "avoid" Bp. Ramolla is the safest course, citing the same propoganda that Dolan and Cekada have been spewing in the States and Europe.


    The sick irony is that Sanborn is a formal schismatic for breaking communion with the CMRI and his little "Jonestown" in Florida is poisoning the "movement."

    His Masses should be avoided for exactly the same reasons whereby he erroneously argues against Catholics attending the so-called "una cum" Masses: it would be communicatio in sacris to attend the Mass of a schismatic that has cut himself off the Mystical Body of Christ.

    I'm sorry, but the SSPX (non-Opus Fellay) would be a far better and wiser choice.





    I am a long way from being a sedevacantist, and I am no particular fan of Bishop Sanborn.  On the other hand, Bishop Pivarunas seems like a decent fellow, and the CMRI clergy seem as solid as they come in the sedevacantist world.  However, I don't see how one bishop, who utterly lacks jurisdiction, becomes any kind of schismatic by distancing himself from another bishop who is utterly without jurisdiction.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Anonymous

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #9 on: October 18, 2012, 10:17:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    However, I don't see how one bishop, who utterly lacks jurisdiction, becomes any kind of schismatic by distancing himself from another bishop who is utterly without jurisdiction.


    It is not a matter of jurisdiction (and you're quite right about that, btw), but both Bps. Sanborn and Pivarunas are members of the Mystical Body of Christ, and both agree regarding Vatican II, Benedict XVI, and so forth, and both acknowledge each other as having valid Orders.

    For one to have a policy that demands boycotting the Chapels of the other, and manipulating it for political and self-serving purposes, is schism essentially because it is the cutting of communion with a member of the Mystical Body of Christ and an implicit statement that the CMRI is somehow not as Catholic as the Brooksville gang.

    Remember what a huge deal Sanborn made of the "una cum" issue? Boycotting Masses just because the name of Benedict XVI is mentioned in the Canon is also schismatic, IMO, or it could easily lead to schism. And it has, 'cos apparently even being non-"una cum" is not good enough for the Big Don.

    And the lay people who coddle this man are not helping him: rumor has it that the latest sede Bishops' lineage chart (made by Paul Sheahan) excludes Bp. Ramolla.

    Gee, I wonder why this would be?

    Offline Sigismund

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #10 on: October 19, 2012, 07:22:44 PM »
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  • Okay.  I see that point.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir


    Anonymous

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #11 on: November 23, 2012, 08:48:52 PM »
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  • BUMP!

    For the benefit of the anti-Accordistas whom the Brooksville/Rialto Road cult is attempting to seduce.

    Don't fall for it.

    You will be betrayed again and again.

    Best to stick to Bp. Williamson. He is the only Bishop who fearlessly stands up for what he believes to be truth and does not succumb to effeminate mitred politics.

    Anonymous

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #12 on: March 14, 2013, 10:05:04 PM »
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  • bump.

    Offline Sigismund

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #13 on: March 16, 2013, 10:35:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Sigismund
    However, I don't see how one bishop, who utterly lacks jurisdiction, becomes any kind of schismatic by distancing himself from another bishop who is utterly without jurisdiction.


    It is not a matter of jurisdiction (and you're quite right about that, btw), but both Bps. Sanborn and Pivarunas are members of the Mystical Body of Christ, and both agree regarding Vatican II, Benedict XVI, and so forth, and both acknowledge each other as having valid Orders.

    For one to have a policy that demands boycotting the Chapels of the other, and manipulating it for political and self-serving purposes, is schism essentially because it is the cutting of communion with a member of the Mystical Body of Christ and an implicit statement that the CMRI is somehow not as Catholic as the Brooksville gang.

    Remember what a huge deal Sanborn made of the "una cum" issue? Boycotting Masses just because the name of Benedict XVI is mentioned in the Canon is also schismatic, IMO, or it could easily lead to schism. And it has, 'cos apparently even being non-"una cum" is not good enough for the Big Don.

    And the lay people who coddle this man are not helping him: rumor has it that the latest sede Bishops' lineage chart (made by Paul Sheahan) excludes Bp. Ramolla.

    Gee, I wonder why this would be?


    Okay.  I guess I can see that.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Anonymous

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    A wicked and adulterous generation
    « Reply #14 on: March 19, 2013, 06:12:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
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    Now the Sanbornite lemmings are saying to "avoid" Bp. Ramolla is the safest course, citing the same propoganda that Dolan and Cekada have been spewing in the States and Europe.


    The sick irony is that Sanborn is a formal schismatic for breaking communion with the CMRI and his little "Jonestown" in Florida is poisoning the "movement."

    His Masses should be avoided for exactly the same reasons whereby he erroneously argues against Catholics attending the so-called "una cum" Masses: it would be communicatio in sacris to attend the Mass of a schismatic that has cut himself off the Mystical Body of Christ.

    I'm sorry, but the SSPX (non-Opus Fellay) would be a far better and wiser choice.





    I am a long way from being a sedevacantist, and I am no particular fan of Bishop Sanborn.  On the other hand, Bishop Pivarunas seems like a decent fellow, and the CMRI clergy seem as solid as they come in the sedevacantist world.  However, I don't see how one bishop, who utterly lacks jurisdiction, becomes any kind of schismatic by distancing himself from another bishop who is utterly without jurisdiction.  


    What good is jurisdiction if the pope in rome is embracing heresy?  

    Jurisdiction during a time of heresy is as good as a walking cane on the Titanic!

     

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