One tries to start a serious discussion, and the thread devolves into a commentary on Sgt Pepper...

I think one of the Beatles had this famous quote... "One day we'll be more popular than Jesus Christ..."  I think he was off just a tad.

What I meant by the fact that WW3 will be a fake war is not that it will not ravage the earth (it will), but that people will be very confused about actual events.  The Russians are not really mad at Washington, heck, they practically controlled Roosevelt.  If Roosevelt would have been a card-carrying member of the commie party he could not have done a better job at Yalta at handing off the world to Stalin on a silver platter.  The cold war was also a fake war.  All through it trade to the Russians was brisk, and they had no trouble acquiring our atomic technology that went to Russia on trucks down the Alaska Highway, why else do you think we built the four billion dollar road to nowhere... travel the highway sometime, and be amazed...  I was going to head down it many years ago but events made the trip impossible.  WW3 is being orchestrated by all the major powers, just as it is now being proven that the US and Japan orchestrated the Pacific theatre of WW2.  Yes, the deaths were real, but the elites knew the outcome the minute the first bomb fell on Pearl Harbor.

My reply to Roscoe is that "sedevacantism" is a copout.  Not that I am going to get into an argument on is the pope the pope not the pope.  I think such arguments are 100% counterproductive because they are unsolvable.  But many "sedevacantists" see Pius XII and his predecessors as 100% perfect and John XXIII on as 100% bad.  Sorry but I think such logic is stupid and stifles clear thinking.  Vatican II and the "New Mess" did not fall out of a clear blue sky.  If you read Fr Dormann (something) about the popes and the liturgy and do other research (I think the SSPX stifled his work because they did not like where that was headed) you will find that what hit the US in the 60's and 70's was in full blossom in Germany in the '20's and '30's, right down to masses in the vernacular and facing the people.  (WHY DO YOU THINK HIPPIES DROVE VOLKSWAGONS, for crying out loud?)  I have done extensive research on the topic.  I know who the protoges of Bugnini and the gang are, people like Fr Odo.  My opinions are based on facts, not the superficial thinking of the '50's fogies in the immediate aftermath of Vatican II and Pope Paul's New Mass.  The New Mass was a mess whether or not Paul VI was a pope, end of story.

The $64,000 dollar question I have for the "sedevacantists" is:  How will the Holy Father inaugurate the Collegial Consecration of Russia if he is not there to begin with.  Also, how will we know when we again have a Holy Father?  Now, don't get me wrong, I am no fan of Pope Benedict or "Pope Frantic" (if there is such a thing as a walking, talking abomination, this is it.) and would not touch either with a ten foot pole.  Pope Benedict was a desperate attempt by the Vatican to show it is still Catholic, and pope frantic was a frantic attempt by the modernists to show they had not abandoned Vatican II.  I really don't pay much attention to neither, and I am not going to be able to once all the copper melts and there is no more internet...

But at any rate I'd appreciate input from the "sedevacantist" gallery on that question, especially in light of what Sr Lucia said that "It will never be too late to have recourse to the Holy Hearts of Jesus and Mary."

Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us, you are our only hope.

St. Francis de Sales, with the approval of the Church, taught that a pope becoming a heretic can be discerned and is solvable. You are contradicting that. 

Church history is replete with conversions. It is going to take some serious conversions to get the papal situation straight. Don't bother trying to ask people to describe to whom, when and how this conversion will occurr. Pretty crazy to base one's stand on not knowing what the future will be.

Really? You don't say... :P

Seriously, how is this mess going to be sorted out??  Let's take Cardinal Burke for example, humanity's last best hope at the Vatican.  How many heresies has he spouted?  How many sɛҳuąƖ predators has he swept under the proverbial carpet in St Louis?  No, Cardinal Burke, like Pope Benedict, is just good at fooling the sheeple with his conservative veneer.

Oh how the SSPX'rs in KCMO danced for joy when Pope Benedict donned the "fiddleback" vestments. 

Oh how the FSSP broke into strains of the "Te DEum" when Indult Mass became Moto Mass. 

Oh, how the conservative Novus Ordo-ites cried in their beer when "and also with you" became "and with your spirit" and when "for all" became "for many".  :jumping2:
The triumph of the Immaculate Heart was just around the corner.  :cheers:

How did that all work out?

On the other hand, there is such a thing as penance and conversion...

Now, I would sooner expect white wolves to intone the Dies Irae, but when I see this collection of goons donning sackcloth and ashes, then I might just start paying attention to the Vatican again...