Author Topic: Ukraine escalation (Read 17601 times)

MariaCatherine · « **Reply #30 on:** July 05, 2014, 01:29:05 PM »

Quote from: poche

Having seized control of the Crimea, Russian officials have placed new restrictions on churches there, the Forum 18 news service reports.

Religious communities in Crimea are being ordered to re-register under Russian law. Priests of the Ukrainian Catholic Church who are not natives of Crimea will be allowed to serve in ministry for only three months at a time before leaving for a month and re-applying for admission. Catholics in Sebastopol, who had hoped for the return of their cathedral (which had been confiscated under Soviet rule), now doubt that the building will be returned.

The new restrictions are not targeted solely against Ukrainian Catholics. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kiev patriarchate, which challenges the dominance of Orthodox body loyal to Moscow, has found that the “rent” for its cathedral in Simferopol, the capital city of Crimea, has been dramatically raised.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21847

What could possibly justify this, in your opinion? Are the uniates over there as politicized as the Orthodox?

poche · « **Reply #31 on:** July 05, 2014, 10:51:37 PM »

Quote from: MariaCatherine

Quote from: poche
Having seized control of the Crimea, Russian officials have placed new restrictions on churches there, the Forum 18 news service reports.

Religious communities in Crimea are being ordered to re-register under Russian law. Priests of the Ukrainian Catholic Church who are not natives of Crimea will be allowed to serve in ministry for only three months at a time before leaving for a month and re-applying for admission. Catholics in Sebastopol, who had hoped for the return of their cathedral (which had been confiscated under Soviet rule), now doubt that the building will be returned.

The new restrictions are not targeted solely against Ukrainian Catholics. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kiev patriarchate, which challenges the dominance of Orthodox body loyal to Moscow, has found that the “rent” for its cathedral in Simferopol, the capital city of Crimea, has been dramatically raised.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21847

What could possibly justify this, in your opinion? Are the uniates over there as politicized as the Orthodox?

The Easstern Rite Catholic Church as an institution has instructed all of its clergy that they are not to participate in the partisan politics of the region. However in Russia there is no freedom of religion as we think of it. The only religions that are officially recognized by the government are the Russian Orthodox, Islam, Judeaism, and Buddhism. It is only within the last 25 years that the Eastern Rite of the Catholic church in Ukraine has been able to operate publically. Prior to that time The Eastern Rite of the Catholic church in Ukraine were illegal and those who professed the Catholic faith as an Eastern Rite were arrested and sent to prison.

MariaCatherine · « **Reply #32 on:** July 06, 2014, 09:49:56 AM »

Quote from: poche

The Eastern Rite Catholic Church as an institution has instructed all of its clergy that they are not to participate in the partisan politics of the region. However in Russia there is no freedom of religion as we think of it. The only religions that are officially recognized by the government are the Russian Orthodox, Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism. It is only within the last 25 years that the Eastern Rite of the Catholic church in Ukraine has been able to operate publicly. Prior to that time The Eastern Rite of the Catholic church in Ukraine were illegal and those who professed the Catholic faith as an Eastern Rite were arrested and sent to prison.

That's sickening (mostly because I didn't know).

MariaCatherine · « **Reply #33 on:** July 06, 2014, 07:15:34 PM »

Am I blind (as well as stupid), or does Poche seem to be the only one here defending Catholics in Ukraine and Russia?

poche · « **Reply #34 on:** July 08, 2014, 02:43:48 AM »

Metropolitan Vladimir of Kiev, the leader of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church allied with the Moscow patriarchate, died on July 5 at the age of 78.

The death of Metropolitan Vladimir, who had been battling cancer, could create new uncertainty in the Ukrainian Orthodox community. The Orthodox group, the largest in Ukraine, he led had remained loyal to Moscow after another group, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church- Kiev patriarchate—had split with the Russian Orthodox leadership. However, Metropolitan Vladimir had distanced himself from the Moscow patriarchate’s strongly pro-Russian perspective on the recent political turmoil in Ukraine.

Tensions between Kiev and Moscow have prompted a Ukrainian government minister to announce that Patriarch Kirill of Moscow would not be welcome to visit Kiev, as he has done each year, for the feast of St. Vladimir. The Russian Orthodox Church announced that the Patriarch would not travel to Kiev for the funeral of Metropolitan Vladimir; Metropolitan Hilarion, the chief ecuмenical spokesman for the Moscow patriarchate, will attend instead.

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church represents a substantial proportion of the faithful claimed by the Moscow patriarchate, and the Moscow patriarchate traces its origins to the Baptism of the Rus’ in Kiev. So the continued loyalty of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church- Moscow patriarchate is of crucial importance to the Russian Orthodox.

Archbishop Svlatoslav Shevchuk, the head of the Byzantine-rite Ukrainian Catholic Church, expressed his “great sadness” upon learning of the death of Metropolitan Vladimir, describing him as “a man of deep prayer and true religious asceticism.” He said that the Orthodox prelate had “understood the importance and urgency of fraternal unity and seeking ways to the unity of churches of St. Vladimir’s baptism.”

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21939

Apparently there are problems within the Ukrainian Orthodox community. If Russia triumphs in the region they will blame all of their problems on the Ukrainain eastern rite Catholics,

procopius · « **Reply #35 on:** July 08, 2014, 01:06:23 PM »

Quote from: MariaCatherine

Am I blind (as well as stupid), or does Poche seem to be the only one here defending Catholics in Ukraine and Russia?

Poche is just the resident western propaganda mouthpiece here. Since the west (US & Jєωs) are against Russian now, Poche posts anti-Russian propaganda she thinks will influence Catholics against Russia. Just pay attention to Poche's posts closely to see what Poche really is. Hint: It's not a Traditional Catholic.

MariaCatherine · « **Reply #36 on:** July 08, 2014, 01:31:40 PM »

Quote from: procopius

Poche is just the resident western propaganda mouthpiece here. Since the west (US & Jєωs) are against Russian now, Poche posts anti-Russian propaganda she thinks will influence Catholics against Russia. Just pay attention to Poche's posts closely to see what Poche really is. Hint: It's not a Traditional Catholic.

Could it be that uniates aren't worthy of concern since they're not trads?

Brennus · « **Reply #37 on:** July 08, 2014, 01:37:14 PM »

Quote from: procopius

Quote from: MariaCatherine
Am I blind (as well as stupid), or does Poche seem to be the only one here defending Catholics in Ukraine and Russia?

Poche is just the resident western propaganda mouthpiece here. Since the west (US & Jєωs) are against Russian now, Poche posts anti-Russian propaganda she thinks will influence Catholics against Russia. Just pay attention to Poche's posts closely to see what Poche really is. Hint: It's not a Traditional Catholic.

Poche is a woman? I didn't know that.

poche · « **Reply #38 on:** July 08, 2014, 10:57:11 PM »

Quote from: procopius

Quote from: MariaCatherine
Am I blind (as well as stupid), or does Poche seem to be the only one here defending Catholics in Ukraine and Russia?

Poche is just the resident western propaganda mouthpiece here. Since the west (US & Jєωs) are against Russian now, Poche posts anti-Russian propaganda she thinks will influence Catholics against Russia. Just pay attention to Poche's posts closely to see what Poche really is. Hint: It's not a Traditional Catholic.

Poche is not against the Russians in general. There is much good that can be said about Russia. But with respect to Catholics of the Eastern rite there appears to be a blind spot. From the end of World War Two until the end of the Soviet Union the existence of the easter rite of the Catholic C hurch was not recognized. Just haveing possesion of literature was grounds to put someone in jail. The anti-Catholic behaviour of the Rusians against our fellow Catholics is what will influence other Catholics against Russia.

poche · « **Reply #39 on:** July 08, 2014, 11:00:11 PM »

Quote from: MariaCatherine

Quote from: procopius
Poche is just the resident western propaganda mouthpiece here. Since the west (US & Jєωs) are against Russian now, Poche posts anti-Russian propaganda she thinks will influence Catholics against Russia. Just pay attention to Poche's posts closely to see what Poche really is. Hint: It's not a Traditional Catholic.

Could it be that uniates aren't worthy of concern since they're not trads?

To use the word "uniate" is considered to be a slur. The eastern rite Catholics are in general friendly toward the tradition. They haven't succombed to the craziness you see in some of the the western rite.

poche · « **Reply #40 on:** July 08, 2014, 11:03:43 PM »

Quote from: Brennus

Quote from: procopius
Quote from: MariaCatherine
Am I blind (as well as stupid), or does Poche seem to be the only one here defending Catholics in Ukraine and Russia?

Poche is just the resident western propaganda mouthpiece here. Since the west (US & Jєωs) are against Russian now, Poche posts anti-Russian propaganda she thinks will influence Catholics against Russia. Just pay attention to Poche's posts closely to see what Poche really is. Hint: It's not a Traditional Catholic.

Poche is a woman? I didn't know that.

Poche is not a woman.

MariaCatherine · « **Reply #41 on:** July 09, 2014, 11:09:02 AM »

Quote from: poche

To use the word "uniate" is considered to be a slur. The eastern rite Catholics are in general friendly toward the tradition. They haven't succombed to the craziness you see in some of the the western rite.

Thanks for this, Poche. I didn't know.

poche · « **Reply #42 on:** July 09, 2014, 10:54:23 PM »

Quote from: MariaCatherine

Quote from: poche
To use the word "uniate" is considered to be a slur. The eastern rite Catholics are in general friendly toward the tradition. They haven't succombed to the craziness you see in some of the the western rite.

Thanks for this, Poche. I didn't know.

They are our fellow Catholics. They are friendly towards tradition. We should stand in union with them.

poche · « **Reply #43 on:** July 11, 2014, 12:53:53 AM »

The people of Slavyansk would dearly love to believe Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko who promised "everything is going to be fixed up" during a lightning visit to the former bastion of pro-Russian rebels on Wednesday.

All but one street of this city of 100,000 people is without electricity and residents still have to draw water from municipal fountains. Hundreds spent the day milling around the central square waiting for humanitarian aid. The shops are open but there are not many customers since so few people have been paid. Even if they had been, the cash machines don't work.

Tankers distribute drinking water and two taxi vans laden with provisions donated by people from the central Ukrainian region of Cherkasy dole out tomatoes, preserves and bacon.

The road between the city and Kramatorsk, another former pro-Russian stronghold was reopened on Wednesday, but very few vehicles have dared to make the trip until it is completely cleared of mines.

The end to the fighting after separatist militia fled the city on Saturday in the face of a Ukrainian army advance has, however, given people hope. And their morale was lifted further by Poroshenko's visit on Tuesday.

- Living under 'bandit' rule -

"Yesterday the president came here, today it's (Interior Minister) Arsen Avakov. They say they are going to create jobs," said Alexander, a 42-year-old businessman, who was afraid to give his surname.

"Those bandits (the pro-Russian separatists) stole $30,000 (22,000 euros) worth of my merchandise. Lots of my friends were locked up in basements by them just because they criticised them.

"Look," he said, referring to Ukrainian troops, "there are still armed men here, but no one is afraid of them."

Nina, 62, was one of several hundred residents who came out to listen to Poroshenko when he gave a speech in the central square dressed in military fatigues.

"I trust him and I think he is sincere," she said. "I think he wants to be the president of all of Ukraine. He wants to fix everything up."

"They say that we voted massively (for independence from Ukraine) in the referendum," she added, referring to the vote the separatists organised in May. "But lots of people voted against it," she insisted.

President Poroshenko declared that Slavyansk and the area around it was not liberated just because of the Ukrainian advance. "It was because the people understood that they cannot live staring down the barrel of the bandits' guns," he told journalists in the city.

He said he was confident that the Ukrainian army would soon retake the regional capitals of Donetsk and Lugansk, which are still in rebel hands.

http://news.yahoo.com/no-water-no-power-no-food-slavyansk-peace-075837073.html

poche · « **Reply #44 on:** July 18, 2014, 02:44:46 AM »

Two Catholic priests have been kidnapped by separatists in eastern Ukraine, the Religious Information Service for Ukraine (RISU) has reported.

Father Tikhon Kulbaka, a priest of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, was kidnapped in Donetsk, the nation’s 5th-largest city, in early July and has been released. According to the RISU report, the priest “faced death several times” during his captivity.

Following Father Kulbaka’s release, Father Victor Vonsovich, a Roman-rite priest, was abducted in eastern Ukraine.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=22029