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Offline jman123

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Ukraine escalation
« on: April 24, 2014, 09:37:46 AM »
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  • The ongoing crisis in Ukraine seems to be getting worse. What is going on? Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys?  

    I picture this conflict as a conflict between the immoral West and the more Christian East.

    Offline procopius

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #1 on: April 24, 2014, 10:16:51 AM »
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  • Good guys and bad guys is cowboy talk, or American talk.  And yes Americans tend to be must politically retarded ignorant people on the planet, especially about foreign affairs.
     
    That said, I'm on the side of the Russians and Putin.  The US are the ones that created this mess, and of course project it on the Russians.  The US wanted to steal away the Ukraine and build NATO bases with the purpose of surrounding Russia even more.  Thus it was a direct provocation against Russia.  In the Crimea, the Russians have a navy base on the black sea with gives Russians access to the Mediterranean, which means they can have their nuclear armed subs right beside Israel and Syria. As you can guess, the US wants to keep the Russians from having that access. That's why the US spent 5 billion dollars to overthrow the democratically elected government.  The overall goal is the create another "cold war" with Russia and break the economic cooperation between Europe and Russia.  Remember the original point of NATO was to fight the soviet union, but the soviet union does not exist anymore, and the US knows it's days as the stole superpower are numbered.  If Russia is seen as an economic partner and not a threat, then the Germans (and Europe) will begin to wonder why the US has military bases within their nation still.  The US understands this and must provoke Russia as much as she can.  For if the world's nations can get from under the US, they will stop trading in US dollars, which will cause the US's economy to collapse and cease to be a superpower.

    So lots of things are stake here, but I'm Russia's side.


    Offline procopius

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #2 on: April 24, 2014, 10:41:25 AM »
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  • To learn more about this subject that does not come from the US press (which in my opinion is totally unreliable and biased, as all trad Catholics know already) check out Paul Craig Roberts.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/

    Washington Drives The World To War

    Quote
    The CIA director was sent to Kiev to launch a military suppression of the Russian separatists in the eastern and southern portions of Ukraine, former Russian territories for the most part that were foolishly attached to the Ukraine in the early years of Soviet rule.

    Washington’s plan to grab Ukraine overlooked that the Russian and Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine were not likely to go along with their insertion into the EU and NATO while submitting to the persecution of Russian speaking peoples.  Washington has lost Crimea, from which Washington intended to eject Russia from its Black Sea naval base. Instead of admitting that its plan for grabbing Ukraine has gone amiss, Washington is unable to admit a mistake and, therefore, is pushing the crisis to more dangerous levels.

    If Ukraine dissolves into secession with the former Russian territories reverting to Russia, Washington will be embarrassed that the result of its coup in Kiev was to restore the Russian provinces of Ukraine to Russia.  To avoid this embarrassment, Washington is pushing the crisis toward war.

    The CIA director instructed Washington’s hand-picked stooge government in Kiev to apply to the United Nations for help in repelling “terrorists” who with alleged Russian help are allegedly attacking Ukraine. In Washington’s vocabulary, self-determination is a sign of Russian interference. As the UN is essentially a Washington-financed organization, Washington will get what it wants.

    The Russian government has already made it completely clear some weeks ago that the use of violence against protesters in eastern and southern Ukraine would compel the Russian government to send in the Russian army to protect Russians, just as Russia had to do in South Ossetia when Washington instructed its Georgian puppet ruler to attack Russian peacekeeping troops and Russian residents of South Ossetia.

    Washington knows that the Russian government cannot stand aside while one of Washington’s puppet states attacks Russians.  Yet, Washington is pushing the crisis to war.

    The danger for Russia is that the Russian government will rely on diplomacy, international organizations, international cooperation, and on the common sense and self-interest of German politicians and politicians in other of Washington’s European puppet states.

    For Russia this could be a fatal mistake. There is no good will in Washington, only mendacity. Russian delay provides Washington with time to build up forces on Russia’s borders and in the Black Sea and to demonize Russia with propaganda and whip up the US population into a war frenzy.  The latter is already occurring.

    Kerry has made it clear to Lavrov that Washington is not listening to Russia. As Washington pays well, Washington’s European puppets are also not listening to Russia. Money is more important to European politicians than humanity’s survival.

    In my opinion, Washington does not want the Ukraine matters settled in a diplomatic and reasonable way. It might be the case that Russia’s best move is immediately to occupy the Russian territories of Ukraine and re-absorb the territories into Russia from whence they came. This should be done before the US and its NATO puppets are prepared for war. It is more difficult for Washington to start a war when the objects of the war have already been lost. Russia will be demonized with endless propaganda from Washington whether or not Russia re-absorbs its traditional territories. If Russia allows these territories to be suppressed by Washington, the prestige and authority of the Russian government will collapse. Perhaps that is what Washington is counting on.

    If Putin’s government stands aside while Russian Ukraine is suppressed, Putin’s prestige will plummet, and Washington will finish off the Russian government by putting into action its many hundreds of Washington-financed NGOs that the Russian government has so foolishly tolerated.  Russia is riven with Washington’s Fifth columns.

    In my opinion, the Russian and Chinese governments have made serious strategic mistakes by remaining within the US dollar-based international payments system. The BRICS and any others with a brain should instantly desert the dollar system, which is a mechanism for US imperialism. The countries of the BRICS should immediately create their own separate payments system and their own exclusive communications/Internet system.

    Russia and China have stupidly made these strategic mistakes, because reeling from communist failures and oppressions, they naively assumed that Washington was pure, that Washington was committed to its propagandistic self-description as the upholder of law, justice, mercy,and  human rights.

    In fact, Washington, the “exceptional, indispensable country,” is committed to its hegemony over the world. Russia, China, and Iran are in the way of Washington’s hegemony and are targeted for attack.

    The attack on Russia is mounting.

    Offline ggreg

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #3 on: April 24, 2014, 12:37:41 PM »
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  • I am not entire on anyone's side.

    Russia has it's problems, rampant alcoholism and bribery and corruption, for example.  But - they don't support faggotry and homosexual marriage like people in the west tend to support in the majority today. Russian men are still men and women are, especially, still women and feminine and 95% seem to want to be wives and mothers, albeit with contracepted families.

    In very many, probably most, ways the Russians are morally superior to the west and appear to me at least to be in the ascendency, while the west is definitely well down the slope into Sodom.  I've lived in Russia for a total of 2 years and visit now about once every 18 months.

    Realistically and pragmatically speaking Russia would be suicidal to allow Ukraine, which has always been a buffer zone and a friendly nation, to slip into the hands of the freemasons who run the EU.  It would be akin to the US allowing China to annex Mexico or Newfoundland or California.

    Russia also appears to be in God's plans.  Certainly for conversion and perhaps as an instrument of chastisement of apostate Europe if Fatima is considered credible.

    Offline Matthew

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #4 on: April 25, 2014, 12:44:04 PM »
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  • We're not out of the woods yet -- not even after this Sunday.

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/The-5-Gs
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 06:43:23 PM »
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  • Here is an AP article from yesterday worth reading:

    Ukraine gives Russia 48 Hour Ultimatum: "Or We Fight"  Print   

    Thursday, 24 April 2014 12:40  

    April 24, 2014 -- (TRN) -- Ukraine's foreign ministry has given Russia a 48-hour ultimatum to explain its military exercises near the nation's border; or, as foreign minister Andriy Deshschytisa warns "we will now fight with Russia troops."  World War 3 could be just 2 days away -- and for what?

     

     

    As AP reports,


    Ukraine's foreign minister has blasted the Russian decision to start military maneuvers along Ukraine's border and said his country will fight any invading troops.

     

    Andriy Deshchytisa said Russia's decision Thursday to launch the military exercises "very much escalates the situation in the region."

     

    Talking to The Associated Press in Prague, Deshchytisa says his country has been taught a lesson by Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula. He says "having this experience, we will now fight with Russian troops if ... they invade Ukraine."

     

    He says "Ukrainian people and Ukrainian army are ready to do this."

     

    Deshchytisa says the new Russian military exercises are taking place "even closer to the Ukrainian border than it was planned earlier" and demanded the withdrawal of Russian troops.

     

    It seems the red-line is about to be crossed by both sides...

     
     

    Offline poche

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #6 on: April 30, 2014, 02:11:57 AM »
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  • The Ukrainian Catholic archbishop of Philadelphia fears that a passive Western response to Russian actions in Ukraine will permit incursions into other nations, according to a report from the local CBS affiliate.

    “In effect, we’re setting up a new [Berlin] wall,” said Archbishop Stefan Soroka. “Maybe it won’t be the cement-brick wall to be broken down but it would be a wall of political and economic intimidation.”


    http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21236

    Offline poche

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #7 on: May 02, 2014, 12:56:18 AM »
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  • Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday that Ukraine should withdraw its military from the eastern and southern regions of the country, a statement that could bolster anti-government insurgents who are seizing buildings.

    Hours later, Ukraine's acting president ordered that the military draft be renewed, citing "threats of encroachment on the nation's territorial integrity" and interference by Russia in its internal affairs.

    Moscow has consistently denounced Ukrainian security forces' largely ineffectual operation against the eastern insurgents and warned they should not commit violence against civilians.

    In a telephone conversation with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Putin said the removal of military units was the "main thing," but it was unclear if that could be construed as an outright demand.

    Oleksandr Turchynov's conscription order marked a turnaround for the country, which last year announced plans to end military conscription in favor of an all-volunteer force. His order did not specify where conscript-bolstered forces could be deployed. The renewal of military conscription affects only men 18 to 25 years old.

    Earlier in the week, the acting president said police and security forces had been effectively "helpless" against insurgents in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, the heart of the unrest, and that efforts should be focused on preventing the instability from spreading to other parts of the country.

    In the regional capital city of Donetsk, anti-government demonstrators took over the regional prosecutor's office Thursday. Several dozen riot police standing guard at the office fired stun grenades and tear gas when some at the front of the crowd of several hundred people attempted to force their way into the building.

    As the confrontation escalated, some in the crowd threw rocks and managed to wrest away shields from police. An Associated Press reporter saw a handful of officers being dragged away and beaten by members of the crowd.

    Hundreds of onlookers accompanying the protesters shouted slogans and hurled abuse.

    A car outside the building blared out patriotic World War II music. Inside, a passenger waved a flag bearing a doctored image of Soviet leader Josef Stalin in a black vest and holding a machine gun superimposed with the words: "Death to Fascism."

    Upon occupying the building, protesters discarded the Ukrainian flag and replaced it with that of the Donetsk People's Republic — a movement that seeks either greater autonomy from the central government, or independence and possible annexation by Russia.

    Donetsk is the heartland of support for Russia-friendly former President Viktor Yanukovych, who was ousted in February after months of protests in the capital. Opponents of the government that succeeded him have seized buildings in about a dozen cities and towns in eastern Ukraine.

    Local news website Novosti Donbassa reported that earlier in the day around 30 armed men arrived in six cars in the town of Amvrosiivka, which lies close to the Russian border, and took over the city council and forced the mayor to resign.

    On Wednesday, insurgents took control of the customs-service building in Donetsk and city hall in Alchevsk, an industrial center of about 110,000 people, adding to the scores of buildings taken by the separatists over the past month in the east, where a dozen cities are now in the hands of the separatists.

    There has also been a spate of reported kidnappings of pro-government politicians. The Svodoba nationalist party said a local party branch leader in Kostiantynivka, 65 kilometers (40 miles) north of Donetsk, initially managed to fight off attackers at his home but was taken away as he was phoning for help.

    Turchynov has twice proclaimed "anti-terrorist" operations to regain control of the east, but to little effect.

    Unlike many recent seizures of the government offices, the assault on the prosecutor's office appeared to have been spearheaded by people armed with little more than sticks. However, at least one young man was seen with a handgun tucked into his trousers, and at least one firebomb was thrown at the building.

    The armed element of the insurgency is focused on Slovyansk, a city 110 kilometers (70 miles) north of Donetsk in which seven European observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe remain held by pro-Russia gunmen.

    Merkel on Thursday again called Putin and asked for his assistance in freeing the group, Merkel spokeswoman Christiane Wirtz said.

    Russia denies allegations from Kiev and the West that it is influencing or fomenting strife in eastern Ukraine.

    The Kremlin confirmed the conversation and said Putin stressed "the main thing was for Ukraine to withdraw its troops from southeastern Ukraine, stop the violence and quickly start a broad national dialogue on constitutional reform."

    In Washington, the second-ranking official of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization said the alliance now feels compelled to start treating Moscow as an adversary.

    "In central Europe, clearly we have two different visions of what European security should be like," Alexander Vershbow, the deputy secretary-general of NATO, said in a question-and-answer session with reporters.

    He said Russia's annexation of Crimea and its apparent efforts to manipulate turmoil in eastern Ukraine have fundamentally changed the NATO-Russia relationship.

    http://news.yahoo.com/putin-wants-troops-ukraines-east-170958110.html


    Offline Christopher67

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #8 on: May 02, 2014, 01:10:09 AM »
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  • Everyone should grab a copy of the Fatima Crusader

    Offline procopius

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #9 on: May 06, 2014, 03:18:20 PM »
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  • Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #10 on: May 06, 2014, 10:41:04 PM »
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  • I cannot vouch if this is true, I post it anyway.

    Russia has already invaded the Ukraine early this morning.

    I do no see any independent confirmation from any other news
    source.

     http://beforeitsnews.com/economics-and-politics/2014/05/breaking-russia-has-invaded-2464724.html


    Offline procopius

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #11 on: May 07, 2014, 05:29:58 PM »
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  • Nah, Russia hasn't invaded, she doesn't want to.  But I guess it depends on your definition of 'invasion,'  some people believe that that home coming parade in Crimea was an invasion. Some invasion, no one died and no buildings were destroyed.

    The US Failed Plan for Ukraine is to Incite Russia to Intervene. The Kiev Coup Government is Already a Dying Entity

    Ukraine: U.S. Campaign Stuck Without Russian Intervention And German Support

    Quote
    Two days ago a mob, supported by the fascists Right Sektor, killed over 30 federalist Ukrainians in Odessa by pushing them from their camp into a building and then setting fire to it. Those who escaped the massacre, not the perpetrators, were rounded up by police. Today pro-federalism people besieged the police headquarter in Odessa until the police released those it had earlier arrested.

     In the east some military and National Guard units under government control were in sporadic fights with federalists but right now the government forces seem to be again in retreat. There were attacks on private bank outlets in the east because the owner of the bank, a well known oligarch, is suspected of financing the fascist Right Sektor paramilitaries.

    The U.S. plan for Ukraine seems to be to bait Russia into an occupation. This would destroy EU-Russia relations, embolden NATO and help the U.S. to keep the EU as a secondary partner under its control. There would be lots of economic upsides for the U.S. in such a situation. Selling more arms and increasing energy market shares are only the starters.

    There are two reasons to believe that this plan will fail:

    First: Russia will not take the bait. The people requesting more local autonomy in Ukraine are perfectly able to take a stand on their own. Should a few die, like in Odessa, even more will rise up. Except for the Right Sektor people now included in the National Guard there are no loyal troops for the Kiev coup government to use against the people. The huge mistake the coup government made, repeating a U.S. mistake made in Iraq, was to dissolve the federal riot police Berkut. Those now unemployed trained fighters, together with experienced former Soviet soldiers, are the military backbone of the federalists. There is therefore no need for Russia to openly intervene. The Kiev coup government is already a dying entity.

    Second: Many people in Europe have recognized the nefarious U.S. scheme and are protesting against their politicians’ slavishness in following the U.S. lead. The political pressure against Russia bashing is building. Every pro-NATO/anti-Russian report in the media, and there are lots of them, gets trashed in the comment sections. Some of the European elite are openly turning against the U.S. induced anti-Russia propaganda. Even the most staunch transatlantic tabloid in Germany, Bild, today reports (original here) that the CIA and FBI with dozens of agents are running the show in Kiev. The report is based on “German security sources” which lets me believe that the German government is looking for ways to counter Washington’s moves. The German Foreign Minister Steinmeier just called (in German) for a second Geneva conference to solve the situation.

    Without Russian intervention and without German support the U.S. campaign against Russia is unlikely to reach its secondary target of isolating Russia. The primary target, Sevastopol harbor in Crimea, was already lost when Russia reunified with the island.

    What is left to do then for Washington is to create more chaos in Ukraine and to hope that somehow out of total chaos some new chance may arise to stick it to Russia. For lack of real direction that strategy is also unlikely to succeed.



    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #12 on: May 08, 2014, 07:08:28 AM »
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  • Saudi Arabia Relocating Takfiri Fighters from Syria to Ukraine

    These are the same demons who are helping the U.S./NATO-backed illegitimate government forces. It's a U.S.-Saudi-Israeli triad that's been causing all of these wars for over 14 years. The Saudis figure they might be able to weaken Russia on the Ukrainian front, thereby, making it easier for their mercenary-terrorists to conquer Syria (and ultimately Iran), along with U.S. and Israeli assistance.

    LINK

    Quote
    "A large number of terrorist Takfiri fighters in Syria, who bear Saudi and Chechnian nationalities and receive financial and military backup from the Saudi intelligence agency, have been transferred to the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, on several planes to help the Ukrainian army in its fight against the pro-Russian population," an Arab security official told FNA on Sunday on the condition of anonymity due to the secrecy of the issue.

    "The forces have been immediately dispatched to Kramatosk city in Eastern Ukraine, and are now fighting beside the Ukrainian army forces against the pro-Russians under the name of militias who support the government," the source added.

    The source explained that Saudi Arabia seeks to take revenge from Russia and pro-Russian people in Ukraine due to Moscow's support for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in the war on rebel groups.

    Last Summer, former Saudi intelligence chief Prince Bandar reportedly offered Russian President Putin a deal, saying if Russia abandoned Syria, Saudi Arabia would protect the Sochi Olympics from Islamic terrorists. Putin angrily rebuffed the offer. In January, two terrorist bombings, for which the Saudis were blamed, happened only 400 miles away from the site of the Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia.

    According to the leaked diplomatic account of last summer’s meeting, Bandar sought Russia’s cooperation on several Mideast concerns, including Syria, and told Putin, “I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics in the city of Sochi on the Black Sea next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us.”

    Putin reportedly responded, “We know that you have supported the Chechen terrorist groups for a decade. And that support, which you have frankly talked about just now, is completely incompatible with the common objectives of fighting global terrorism that you mentioned. We are interested in developing friendly relations according to clear and strong principles.”

    Besides safety for the Sochi Olympics, Bandar raised the potential of Saudi cooperation with Russia on oil and other investment matters, saying, “Let us examine how to put together a unified Russian-Saudi strategy on the subject of oil. The aim is to agree on the price of oil and production quantities that keep the price stable in global oil markets,” according to the diplomatic account.

    A source close to the Russian government said in January that this mix of overt inducements and implied threats infuriated Putin who barely kept his anger in check through the end of the meeting with Bandar. Putin viewed Bandar’s offer to protect the Sochi Olympics as something akin to a Mafia don shaking down a shopkeeper for protection money by saying, “nice little business you got here, I’d hate to see anything happen to it.”

    Putin then redoubled his support for the Syrian government in response to Bandar’s blend of bribes and warnings. The source said Russia also issued its own thinly veiled threats against the Saudis. The Saudis may have substantial “soft power” – with their oil and money – but Russia has its own formidable “hard power,” including a huge military, the source said.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline ggreg

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #13 on: May 08, 2014, 10:55:23 AM »
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  • Putin is actually trying to calm the situation down.

    His view is that the west began the revolution and rioting in Kiev so that it could hand Russia a poisoned chalice and accuse Russia of not intervening to help.

    Seems to align with reality better than the western media's version.

    Offline procopius

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    Ukraine escalation
    « Reply #14 on: May 09, 2014, 04:01:49 PM »
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  • http://news.antiwar.com/2014/05/09/ukraine-troops-kill-20-in-mariupol-blow-up-police-station/

    Ukraine Troops Kill 20 in Mariupol, Blow Up Police Station

    Quote
    While most of Ukraine’s military’s major operations against the east have come in the northern part of Donetsk Oblast, today’s attacks focused on the south, and the key port city of Mariupol, where at least 20 people have been reported killed, and massive numbers wounded.

    Interior Ministry troops, backed by tanks and APCs, are trying to retake the protester-held Interior Ministry building in town, while arresting local police who refused to side with them against the population.

    Retaking the ministry building seems to be job one, but instead of worrying about that with a protester-held police station, the troops simply blew it up with rocket-propelled grenades, leveling the building, killing seven within, and wounding dozens.

    Though the government dubbed all those killed “terrorists,” many of the people shot in the streets seem to have been unarmed civilian protesters. RT’s cameraman for the city, taking pictures of the chaos, was also shot in the chest, and despite wearing a bulletproof vest was badly wounded.


    So I think that this is the moment of no return.  The US appointed government cannot hold control without using violence against Russian Ukrainians.  There will never be legitimate elections in Ukraine for decades now. So it will be a war of ethnic Russians vs. the US's employees in the Ukraine region.  You can definitely tell that the US is running the show in Kiev because the governmental forces call everyone they kill a "terrorist" even police officers.  Which is the policy of the US military when they kill people that rebel against them.


     

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