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Offline hollingsworth

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the downing of MH17
« on: July 21, 2014, 01:47:51 PM »
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  • Reprinted below is a recent article by Ron Paul about the downing of MH17 and what, he says, the Western media refuses to report about it.  I am interested in learning how many agree with me that the West is entirely to blame for the conflict going on in Ukraine.  I am interested, further, in knowing how many of you believe that Kiev was probably ultimately responsible for the downing of this Malaysian commercial jet.  Who is more to be trusted at this point, Putin's Russia or the Obama administration and its western allies?
    ______________________________________________________________

    What the Media Won’t Report About Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17

    Written by Ron Paul  

    Sunday July 20, 2014



    Ronpaul Tst

    Just days after the tragic crash of a Malaysian Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine, Western politicians and media joined together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster. It had to be Russia; it had to be Putin, they said. President Obama held a press conference to claim – even before an investigation – that it was pro-Russian rebels in the region who were responsible. His ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power, did the same at the UN Security Council – just one day after the crash!
     
     While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are a few things they will not report.
     
     They will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and US-supported protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without US-sponsored “regime change,” it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened.
     
     The media has reported that the plane must have been shot down by Russian forces or Russian-backed separatists, because the missile that reportedly brought down the plane was Russian made. But they will not report that the Ukrainian government also uses the exact same Russian-made weapons.
     
     They will not report that the post-coup government in Kiev has, according to OSCE monitors, killed 250 people in the breakaway Lugansk region since June, including 20 killed as government forces bombed the city center the day after the plane crash! Most of these are civilians and together they roughly equal the number killed in the plane crash. By contrast, Russia has killed no one in Ukraine, and the separatists have struck largely military, not civilian, targets.
     
     They will not report that the US has strongly backed the Ukrainian government in these attacks on civilians, which a State Department spokeswoman called “measured and moderate.”
     
    They will not report that neither Russia nor the separatists in eastern Ukraine have anything to gain but everything to lose by shooting down a passenger liner full of civilians.
     
     They will not report that the Ukrainian government has much to gain by pinning the attack on Russia, and that the Ukrainian prime minister has already expressed his pleasure that Russia is being blamed for the attack.
     
     They will not report that the missile that apparently shot down the plane was from a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system that requires a good deal of training that the separatists do not have.
     
     They will not report that the separatists in eastern Ukraine have inflicted considerable losses on the Ukrainian government in the week before the plane was downed.
     
     They will not report how similar this is to last summer’s US claim that the Assad government in Syria had used poison gas against civilians in Ghouta. Assad was also gaining the upper hand in his struggle with US-backed rebels and the US claimed that the attack came from Syrian government positions. Then, US claims led us to the brink of another war in the Middle East. At the last minute public opposition forced Obama to back down – and we have learned since then that US claims about the gas attack were false.
     
     Of course it is entirely possible that the Obama administration and the US media has it right this time, and Russia or the separatists in eastern Ukraine either purposely or inadvertently shot down this aircraft. The real point is, it's very difficult to get accurate information so everybody engages in propaganda. At this point it would be unwise to say the Russians did it, the Ukrainian government did it, or the rebels did it. Is it so hard to simply demand a real investigation?


    Copyright © 2014 by RonPaul Institute. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit and a live link are gi


    Offline Lighthouse

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #1 on: July 21, 2014, 02:13:16 PM »
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  • It's hard for me to decide one way or the other.  As a Catholic, I'm quite comfortable in stating that shooting innocent civilians out of the sky is nothing but evil, but I am not sure that I'm being fed good info or bad. Conspiracy, counter-conspiracy, "they" want us to be confused and they are very good at accomplishing that.





    Offline Matthew

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 02:16:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth
    I am interested in learning how many agree with me that the West is entirely to blame for the conflict going on in Ukraine.  I am interested, further, in knowing how many of you believe that Kiev was probably ultimately responsible for the downing of this Malaysian commercial jet.  Who is more to be trusted at this point, Putin's Russia or the Obama administration and its western allies?


    That is precisely what I believe, and I've been saying that in no uncertain terms since the first news about MH17.

    I don't expect everyone to have the big-picture vision that I have; I make a great effort to stay informed about these things, and have an above-average amount of time to worry about it.

    What I do expect of ALL Catholics, especially CathInfo members, is to try to use your God-given brains. Don't follow the propaganda blindly. TRY to keep an open mind. Guard your heart when they try to stoke hatred of a single man. The truth is usually much more complicated -- even the opposite of what they would have you believe.

    Just remember -- whatever you think you know, objectively you are certain about very, very little. What part of MH17's downing -- and the whole story -- have you witnessed personally, or even witnessed by someone you know personally?

    The men who produce the content you watch on TV are not of God. On the contrary -- they are associated with the "ѕуηαgσgυє of satan", at the very least they work for them and are "directed" and "edited" by them.
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    Offline Lighthouse

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #3 on: July 21, 2014, 02:20:10 PM »
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  • And congratulations Hollingsworth for actually stating what the source and context of  the text is that you are about to hit us with.

    I'm so tired of having an OP starting off with pronouncements, and not having a clue as to whether it's the writer's own thoughts, his father's favorite sayings, or an obscure passage of the American Constitution.


    Offline Matthew

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #4 on: July 21, 2014, 02:39:26 PM »
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  • An EXCELLENT summary.

    If you want to stop being confused about all this, I strongly urge you to take the 19 minutes and watch this great video.

    It's hard to deny any of these "holes" in the official story!


    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/YFlGLqiDogA[/youtube]
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    Offline hollingsworth

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #5 on: July 21, 2014, 02:48:45 PM »
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  • What I fear is that MH17 may be another fαℓѕє fℓαg affair, orchestrated by the same gentle folks who gave us 9/11.  Black ops are designed to get your attention by insuring lots of casualties.  The general public initially is  supposed to react with horror and outrage, followed by the hidden perpetrators being given the green light to carry out massive and brutal assaults against a perceived enemy of all mankind, i.e. the "International Community," and all that is decent and civilized.  And it is all done in the name of "liberty" and the spreading of "democracy" among a people who have heretofore known nothing but fascist oppression and enslavement.  That's what leads me to believe, along with Matthew, perhaps, that this is yet another attempt by the ѕуηαgσgυє to neutralize another foe, in this case, of course, it is Putin's Russia.  Putin, it seems, gives the 'Chosen" fits.  He won't let them carry out their agenda in the ME.  Pray for the soon Consecration of Russia.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #6 on: July 21, 2014, 04:04:29 PM »
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  • Good read. Thanks Hollingsworth.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline alaric

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #7 on: July 21, 2014, 06:31:20 PM »
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  • PCR nails it in this article;

    What Happened to the Malaysian Airliner? — Paul Craig Roberts

    What Happened to the Malaysian Airliner?

    Paul Craig Roberts

    Washington’s propaganda machine is in such high gear that we are in danger of losing
    the facts that we do have.

    One fact is that the separatists do not have the expensive Buk anti-aircraft missile system or the trained personnel to operate it.

    Another fact is that the separatists have no incentive to shoot down an airliner and neither does Russia. Anyone can tell the difference between low-flying attack aircraft and an airliner at 33,000 feet.

    The Ukrainians do have Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, and a Buk battery was operational in the region and deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner.

    Just as the separatists and the Russian government have no incentive to shoot down an airliner, neither does the Ukrainian government nor, one would think, even the crazed extreme Ukrainian nationalists who have formed militias to take the fight against the separatists that the Ukrainian army is not keen to undertake–unless there was a plan to frame Russia.

    One Russian general familiar with the weapon system offered his opinion that it was a mistake made by the Ukrainian military untrained in the weapon’s use. The general said that although Ukraine has a few of the weapons, Ukrainians have had no training in their use in the 23 years since Ukraine separated from Russia. The general thinks it was an accident due to incompetence.

    More here;

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/


    Offline alaric

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #8 on: July 21, 2014, 06:34:48 PM »
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  • Anyway, while Obama and the U.S. remained outraged and determined to blame this on Putin and the Russians........Israeli's are murdering Palestinian children.

    Obama and his minions say nothing. :rolleyes:

    Offline Matthew

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #9 on: July 21, 2014, 06:37:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: alaric
    Anyway, while Obama and the U.S. remained outraged and determined to blame this on Putin and the Russians........Israeli's are murdering Palestinian children.

    Obama and his minions say nothing. :rolleyes:


    That's a good point.

    "Only" 298 people died on this doomed flight.

    So far, at least 550 Palestinians have died, and we're not talking about soldiers either. Over 70% were civilians. Lots of women and children. So more civilians have died in the past few weeks of Israeli aggression than in the shoot-down of MH17.
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    Offline alaric

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #10 on: July 21, 2014, 07:07:01 PM »
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  • Speaking of the Zionist controlled MSM, I just seen part of the interview with Netanayhu on one of the major networks where he tries and defends Israel's targeting of civilian population centers as more or less "collaterall damage" and "unfortunate" circuмstance due to Palestinian "agression" against Israeli civilians.

    Yet only a fraction of Israeli's have been killed in the conflict and just about all of them are ISRAELI SOLDIERS!

    Hamas drove home this point in the barely heard comment by the news anchor at the end of the news clip after the Netanyahu interview. While no one from Hamas was interviewed at all. :rolleyes:

    If you don't believe Jєωs and Zionist Christians run the media here in this country, you are either a fool or insane or both. It couldn't be more obvious.



    Offline alaric

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #11 on: July 21, 2014, 07:18:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Petertherock
    Quote from: alaric
    Anyway, while Obama and the U.S. remained outraged and determined to blame this on Putin and the Russians........Israeli's are murdering Palestinian children.

    Obama and his minions say nothing. :rolleyes:


    Don't worry...Obama and John Kerry hate Israel just like the rest of you...when they get caught with their Israel hatred they go into full spin mode...



    What are you kidding me? He's DEFENDING Israel's "right" to protect itself in that clip more than anything.

    Kerry's totally on board with the little bandit state, he's a Jєω for crying out loud.

    That little show was just for the cameras. Kerry is the consumate, lying, decieving politican. He's sooo concerned about the Palestinain kids.

    Yet this was the same guy who wanted to bomb Syrian children over some damn fαℓѕє fℓαg gas attack. Now him and Obama are getting all huggy-bear over a possible war with Russia over a bunch of bogus lies.

    Kerry doesn't "hate" Israel for a second. He's just another lap-dog for her like the rest of them.

    Putin almost stands alone against the Jєωιѕн menace. that's why he has a major league bullseye on his head.

    Offline Matto

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #12 on: July 21, 2014, 07:26:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: alaric

    Putin almost stands alone against the Jєωιѕн menace. that's why he has a major league bullseye on his head.

    Well, we remember the most famous politician to stand against the Jєωιѕн menace was Hitler. Hopefully things go better for Putin than they went for Hitler. But is Putin really against the Jєωs? I don't know enough about him to say.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline alaric

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #13 on: July 21, 2014, 07:35:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: alaric

    Putin almost stands alone against the Jєωιѕн menace. that's why he has a major league bullseye on his head.

    Well, we remember the most famous politician to stand against the Jєωιѕн menace was Hitler. Hopefully things go better for Putin than they went for Hitler. But is Putin really against the Jєωs? I don't know enough about him to say.
    Eh, it hard to say if he's really "against the Jєωs".

    But he is for Russia first and formost and he doesn't hide his respect and coperation with the Russian Orthodox Church.

    These two things doesn't necessarily make him "against the Jєωs" but it certainly makes тαℓмυdic Zionist Jєωs against him and Russia. you can be sure of that.

    Offline hollingsworth

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    the downing of MH17
    « Reply #14 on: July 21, 2014, 07:41:06 PM »
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  • Petertherock:
    Quote
    Don't worry...Obama and John Kerry hate Israel just like the rest of you...when they get caught with their Israel hatred they go into full spin mode...


    Oh, so it's "just like the rest of (us)," is it?  There are not many on this forum who "go into full spin mode.." when their detestation of Israel is revealed.  I certainly don't.  I think, like a former French ambassador, that Israel is a "s----ty little country."  It has no right to exist.  It is populated by people  who call themelves "Jєωs," but are not. They are the tribal remnants of Caucasian nomads, who have absolutely no ancestral ties to the Hebrew Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  They are the players, in the words of Arthur Koestler,  of the "most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated."
    John Kerry does not hate Israel just like the rest of us.  He is simply caught and implicated, as have a number of his predecessors been caught and implicated, in a vicious web of Israeli-sponsored violence and destruction against innocent people.  He finds it a bit embarrassing, I speculate, that he should be forced to run diplomatic interference for a bunch of out-of-control child killers.  John Kerry does not begin to hate Israel like I do, I'll assure you Petertherock.  BTW, you sound more like 'Francistherock' than Petertherock.