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Offline stevusmagnus

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Afghan sex practices concern U.S., British forces
« on: December 21, 2010, 10:36:54 AM »
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  • http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/world/2010/12/afghan-sex-practices-concern-us-british-forces

    A docuмent released by WikiLeaks described efforts by high-ranking Afghan officials to quash reports of police officers and other Afghans arrested for "purchasing a service from a child."
    The leaked diplomatic cable quoted former Minister of the Interior Hanif Atmar's concern that publicity about the arrests, which involved the hiring of "dancing boys," would "endanger lives."

    The author of the diplomatic cable fretted that the case would be "blown out of proportion, an outcome that would not be good for either the U.S. or Afghanistan."

    The vast gulf between U.S. and Afghan attitudes about ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and pedophilia has generated concern among U.S. advisers in Afghanistan since the American presence there began to expand.

    In late 2009, U.S. and British forces ordered a study of Pashtun male sɛҳuąƖity. They were worried that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and pedophilia among Afghan security forces and tribes could create cultural misunderstanding with allied troops, according to a copy of the report obtained by The Washington Examiner.

    The study, requested by 2nd Marine Expeditionary Battalion along with British forces in Lashkar Gah, was conducted by members of one of the Defense Department's Human Terrain Teams stationed in Afghanistan. The report was authored by team member Anna Maria Cardinalli, who said the goal was to learn how to advise "U.S. and British service members who report encounters with men displaying apparently ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies. These service members are frequently confused [by] this behavior."

    The report described unease by U.S. Marines and British soldiers who felt they were being propositioned, or who were outraged by apparent acts of pedophilia by Afghan soldiers and police. It docuмented one case in which 12 of 20 Pashtun interpreters working with one U.S. Army unit had contracted gonorrhea from ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ encounters.

    Troops interviewed by The Examiner say they are frequently forced to deal with a radically different attitude toward sex with male youths by Afghan security forces.

    "I know Marines and soldiers who have refused to work with Afghan military or police," said one U.S. military official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "It's not about ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity as much as it is about the young boys. Some of them like to show pictures on their cell phone -- that should be illegal. Some of the Afghans have their own young boys they use for sɛҳuąƖ purposes and we can't do anything about it."

    Cardinalli told The Examiner by e-mail that she is writing a book about widespread acceptance of male ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity among Pashtuns, a culture where far fewer opportunities for premarital heterosɛҳuąƖ encounters exist.

    "To dismiss the existence of this dynamic out of desire to avoid Western discomfort is to risk failing to comprehend an essential social force underlying Pashtun culture which can potentially effect the success" of the U.S. effort there, Cardinalli wrote in the report.

    An American military official who works closely with Afghan security forces called the discomfort among U.S. and British troops "the elephant in the closet that no one's talking about, but needs to."

    The study makes a number of observations about the extreme segregation of women in Pashtun culture.

    It discusses the prohibitive cost of marriage within Pashtun tribes and the long-standing traditions in which boys are appreciated for their physical beauty and apprenticed to older men to learn a trade at an early age.

    "ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is strictly prohibited in Islam, but cultural interpretations of Islamic teaching prevalent in Pashtun areas of southern Afghanistan tacitly condone it in comparison to heterosɛҳuąƖ relationships," the study states.

    For a male to have sex with a boy is considered a "foible," the report said. By contrast, having sex with an "ineligible woman" would set up "issues of revenge and honor killings."

    Years of living under that cultural construct have greatly altered sɛҳuąƖ attitudes, the study said. "One of the country's favorite sayings is 'women are for children, boys are for pleasure," the report noted.

    The study said the prevailing sɛҳuąƖ attitudes in some parts of Afghanistan are creating a cycle damaging to boys and young men.

    "There is frequently the risk that Pashtun boys will face a set of experiences that mold their beliefs regarding sɛҳuąƖity as adults in ways that are ultimately damaging, both to themselves and to Afghan society," the report concludes. "It appears that this set of experiences becomes cyclical, affecting generations, and that this cycle that has existed long enough to affect the underpinnings of Afghan culture itself."



    Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/world/2010/12/afghan-sex-practices-concern-us-british-forces#ixzz18lU7ua1Z


    Offline innocenza

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    Afghan sex practices concern U.S., British forces
    « Reply #1 on: December 21, 2010, 10:53:18 AM »
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  • Islamic ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ Pederasty and Afghanistan’s “Dancing Boys.”

    Posted By Phyllis Chesler On April 21, 2010 @ 10:43 am In Uncategorized | 8 Comments

    Frontline’s Docuмentary about the “Bacha Bazi.”

    Last week, in Quetta, Pakistan, a homicide bomber attacked a prominent Shiite bank manager—and when his friends and relatives followed him to the hospital emergency room, another bomber attacked them, killing eight [1]. The police assume that this was a “sectarian” (Muslim Sunni vs Muslim Shia) attack. This is nothing new; this is the template, the pattern. For example, also in 2009, in Dera Ismail Khan, Pakistan, a Shiite Muslim leader was shot down; the next day, at his funeral [2], a homicide bomber killed himself and 28 mourners. Again, the police described this as “sectarian” violence. In 2008, in the same town, after the shooting death of a Shiite Muslim cleric, both the hospital and the funeral were subsequently attacked [3] either by a homicide bomber or by a “planted” device. These Muslims take no prisoners. Yesterday, the deputy mayor of Kandahar, in Afghanistan (123 miles away from Quetta), was shot to death [4] while he was praying in a mosque.

    What mercy might such people show to infidels, women, or children, including their own?

    None. None at all. Westerners are so confused about this—not only because they are brainwashed and do not want to be called “racists,” but also because these people tend to have such charming and “sincere” faces.

    Last night, I watched the saddest little movie, a brave Frontline docuмentary [5] about the “Bacha Bazi,” the underage “dancing boys” of Afghanistan. These children are sex slaves to older, powerful Afghan men–in this instance, former Northern Alliance warlords, who have purchased them from their impoverished families or, as orphans, simply taken them off the street. When they try to escape, they are found and punished—or they are murdered.


    An Afghan dancing boy

    “Dagastir,” a former Northern Alliance warlord, who today has hundreds of police officers at his disposal, has an impassive, even a kind face. He does not look or sound ashamed or guilty about what he does. Yes, of course, he is married and has two young sons.

    Human Rights Watch, cited by Amnesty International, first broke this story in 1997. They cited it as a Taliban-abuse. I write about this in my book The Death of Feminism [6]. Now UNICEF [7] says that this practice “has to be eradicated.” The docuмentary narrative admits that, although such sex slavery is illegal, the police will not make arrests, and that the rare jail sentence is quickly commuted. The police themselves often comprise the all-male audiences who enjoy the dancing boy performances.

    And the people are so very poor and have so few options.

    Bacha bazi (dancing boys) are taken and trained in singing and dancing when they are as young as six years old, more often when they are nine or ten. They wear women’s clothing, women’s Jєωelry, women’s makeup, and are taught to dance with alluring “feminine” gestures. Here, we might call them “transvestites,” but that would be an inaccurate comparison. These dancing boys are children, who are forced to dance and then have sex with men old enough to be their fathers and their grandfathers.


    Afghan dancing boy with older man

    ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ pederasty is epidemic in the Muslim world. Think ancient Greece (Alexander the Great marched on through Afghanistan clear to India); think Ottoman Empire Turkey; think Persia; think Saudi Arabia, where grown men still hold hands in public. The dancing boys are but one example or expression of it. Nevertheless, the phenomenon is hotly denied, and “ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity,” as westerners understand it, is strictly forbidden and often savagely punished in Muslim countries. On camera, one man suggests that the practice was learned in Pakistan when Afghan warriors fled the Russian invasion. But ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ pederasty may also be indigenous to Afghanistan.

    The bacha bazi kind of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is strictly prison-sex: it is taken by force, and is strictly about money and power. (In prison, this translates into “protection.”) The Afghan children have no choice but to make the best of it. Their lives are “ruined,” as one boy said on camera. But, when they “age out,” at eighteen, they hope to set up a stable of dancing boys of their own as the only or the best way to earn money.

    Other than Radhika Coomaraswamy of UNICEF, we see no woman’s face on camera in the Frontline docuмentary. We see Afghan women in chadors prostrate, begging, on the street; we see women in chadors scurrying by. Only once do we hear an Afghan woman’s voice. It belongs to the mother of a murdered “dancing boy.” She sits, in full, eerie chador, at home, right next to another naked-faced son, and talks to the naked-faced interviewer, the very brave Afghan journalist who made this film: London-based Najibullah Quraishi. (His producer is Jamie Doran). To his credit, with the help of a former warlord, Quraishi actually manages to rescue one very young boy and relocates both him and his family.

    The other young sex slaves are left to their own devices. Perhaps UNICEF or even President Karzai will rescue them. (This is a bitter, heartbroken comment. Please don’t think I’m holding my breath here).

    Look: Wherever women are forced to wear chadors, burqas, niqab, be sure: That in addition to woman-abuse and woman-hatred, that children are also being abused. For men, especially warriors, who are brought up apart from women, taught to fear and despise women, their major erotic and social drives will be male-centric, not female-centric. ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ pederasty accompanies extreme gender apartheid in an extreme way.

    Article printed from Chesler Chronicles: http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler

    URL to article: http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/201...boys-%e2%80%9d/

    URLs in this post:

    [1] killing eight: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/17/world/as...s-Pakistan.html

    [2] funeral: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2009-02/...ent_7498744.htm

    [3] attacked: http://www.welt.de/english-news/article275...n-Pakistan.html

    [4] shot to death: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/21/world/asia/21afghan.html

    [5] docuмentary: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/

    [6] The Death of Feminism: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1403975108/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1403975108&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20

    [7] UNICEF: http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/afghanistan_44707.html

    http://fieryspiritedzionist.blogspot.com
       Posted Jul 11, 2010, 7:40 pm


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Afghan sex practices concern U.S., British forces
    « Reply #2 on: December 21, 2010, 10:56:01 AM »
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  • HORRIFYING!!!

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 11:03:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    HORRIFYING!!!


    How is it more horrifying than the Novus Ordo?

    I'll tell you this though, the dirty machismo that dishonest SSPX priests indulge in certain fathers, when a man simply wants to talk to their daughter, is a disgrace.

    Would you send your boy to an all boy SSPX school?


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Afghan sex practices concern U.S., British forces
    « Reply #4 on: December 21, 2010, 11:06:31 AM »
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  • Another thing: I'm no fan of Pashtun tribes but this is propaganda, without any doubt.

    I regularly chat with Iranian women and if the average American had any idea what the Iranian society is like and understood politics they would think it is madness to carry out the US policy of intimidation.  Not to mention our support for Iraq's insane war on Iran.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Afghan sex practices concern U.S., British forces
    « Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 11:14:07 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: stevusmagnus
    HORRIFYING!!!


    How is it more horrifying than the Novus Ordo?


    Because this is an accepted part of their culture and common. It is a way of life! The N.O. problem was very horrifying but still isolated and the practice is still looked at with disgust by Western society and Catholics.

    Quote
    Quote
    I'll tell you this though, the dirty machismo that dishonest SSPX priests indulge in certain fathers, when a man simply wants to talk to their daughter, is a disgrace.
    Would you send your boy to an all boy SSPX school?


    What in the world are you talking about? One sentence you overheard from one SSPX priest out of context, which you now use to bismirch all Society priests and schools because said priest kicked you out of the church? For all we know he may have had good reason and was justified in what he did to you. It sounds like you have a personal axe to grind in disparaging the entire Society over a personal gripe with one priest.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Afghan sex practices concern U.S., British forces
    « Reply #6 on: December 21, 2010, 11:15:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Another thing: I'm no fan of Pashtun tribes but this is propaganda, without any doubt.

    I regularly chat with Iranian women and if the average American had any idea what the Iranian society is like and understood politics they would think it is madness to carry out the US policy of intimidation.  Not to mention our support for Iraq's insane war on Iran.


    How is it propaganda? It is true and is not well publicized. Just because one condemns the sick practices going on there, doesn't mean one has to support US interventionism.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Afghan sex practices concern U.S., British forces
    « Reply #7 on: December 21, 2010, 11:22:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    How is it propaganda? It is true and is not well publicized.


    How do you know it's really reflective of the general situation there?  People could say things about seminaries, does that mean we should assume all Catholic seminaries are dens of unnatural vice? Your claim it isn't well publicized isn't true either.  All we hear about is talk about Muslims being perverts from the "patriotic conservatives"

    Quote
    Just because one condemns the sick practices going on there, doesn't mean one has to support US interventionism.


    No, but it's about making Americans hate and despise those people, just as the media wants us to hate and despise Catholic priests.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #8 on: December 21, 2010, 11:29:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Because this is an accepted part of their culture and common. It is a way of life!


    And you are absolutely certain from these articles?

    Quote
    The N.O. problem was very horrifying but still isolated and the practice is still looked at with disgust by Western society and Catholics.


    Do you really think it's isolated?  I have heard of many cases where people I know have lost their faith and stopped going to Church because of family members who were abused.  My former pediatrician's son, for example.  My mother's best friend from nursing school  Possibly even my own uncle who went into scientology.  I don't think Novus Ordo abuse is isolated at all.  I think attempts to downplay the extent of the problem are misguided wishful thinking.  And the Angelus posting some crude letter to the editor with unchecked statistics from a "Jєωιѕн businessman" to defend it is a sick joke.

    Quote
    What in the world are you talking about? One sentence you overheard from one SSPX priest out of context, which you now use to bismirch all Society priests and schools because said priest kicked you out of the church? For all we know he may have had good reason and was justified in what he did to you. It sounds like you have a personal axe to grind in disparaging the entire Society over a personal gripe with one priest.


    It's an SSPX policy to forbid talking to a girl without the father's consent, even if she's 18, and the priest kicked me out because I refused to adhere to it and told him off for his dishonesty and the Society's refusal to teach what St. Thomas teaches on this matter.  But you don't care about St. Thomas theology on unnatural vice, so - why argue with you?  You care more about what this Pope says and about defending Bishop Fellay whatever he does.  

      No, he didn't have a right to kick me out.  He's a liar, the society is corrupt in its leadership, Bishop Fellay is corrupt.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Afghan sex practices concern U.S., British forces
    « Reply #9 on: December 21, 2010, 11:37:47 AM »
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  • Another thing.  If I were a bad guy out to take advantage of those girls I could probably still be there.  It's precisely because I was honest and forthright about my intentions, precisely because I didn't take advantage that I received this vile treatment.

    And that dirty dishonest priest pretends I'm delusional.  With their little gossip circle they managed to destroy my reputation, all because I wanted to talk to a girl who was 18, and that's supposed to be some sort of crime.

    Some of these priests are malicious, they are treacherous, they just care about following Fellay's orders, they don't care about the Church anymore.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Afghan sex practices concern U.S., British forces
    « Reply #10 on: December 21, 2010, 11:55:51 AM »
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  • Your comments regarding the OP are all anecdotal. If you want to believe no ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ pedophile behavior is inculturated in these countries despite the evidence and that it is all propaganda manufactured to support interventionism, go right ahead. I'll take the many articles and victims of these practices at face value just as I take the priest abuse victims at face value. The Afghani victims have even less reason to lie since there is no lawsuit money at stake for them.

    Can you point to a rule somewhere in Society docuмents where men are forbidden to talk to females under 18 without their father's consent for any reason?

    This seems absurd since I've known Society priests and brothers to talk to female children with no problem after Mass. It would be ridiculous not to.

    I suppose the rule must involve a situation where a man is intending to court a young woman, and in that instance, permission from the father would be the Traditional thing to do.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #11 on: December 21, 2010, 12:04:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Your comments regarding the OP are all anecdotal.


    But reports on the problem are not anecdotal.  Do you really believe it's so limited?  When you read something like Good-bye Good Men you begin to understand just how serious the problem is.  The fact that anecdotal evidence confirms its widespread means it's a serious, widespread problem, not an isolated problem.

    Quote
    If you want to believe no ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ pedophile behavior is inculturated in these countries despite the evidence and that it is all propaganda manufactured to support interventionism, go right ahead. I'll take the many articles and victims of these practices at face value just as I take the priest abuse victims at face value. The Afghani victims have even less reason to lie since there is no lawsuit money at stake for them.


    I don't know what the situation is in Afghanistan, I just know, speaking to Muslim women, that their society is nothing like what an American would expect reading propaganda stories like this all the time.

    Quote
    Can you point to a rule somewhere in Society docuмents where men are forbidden to talk to females under 18 without their father's consent for any reason?


    It doesn't have to be written down to be a rule.  The priest told me to my face, that's good enough for me.  I'm not a liar stevus.  Pretend I am if you must, but that priest is the liar, not me! The priest told me, I could not try to contact her or I would be kicked out.  Another priest in confession forbade her to talk to me - in fact before she was in line to confession she tried to talk to me, very upset - but I was praying and didn't raise my head to her, thinking she could tell me later.  After mass she pretended I didn't exist, her conscience bound by those priests binding consciences to machismo.  It's an utter disgrace!

    Quote
    This seems absurd since I've known Society priests and brothers to talk to female children with no problem after Mass. It would be ridiculous not to.


    An 18 year old girl isn't a child, and I'm not a priest, so I don't understand how what you're saying is relevant.

    Quote
    I suppose the rule must involve a situation where a man is intending to court a young woman, and in that instance, permission from the father would be the Traditional thing to do.


    Once again you seem to disregard what St. Thomas says, just as you do about unnatural adultery being worse than unnatural.  It proves to me you care more about defending this "Pope" and the Society policies more than you do about defending Church teaching.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #12 on: December 21, 2010, 12:10:17 PM »
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  • So a Society priest, for absolutely no reason, instructed you not to have contact with a young girl and advised her of the same, out of the blue? He provided absolutely no basis for this request?

    Is it not reasonable that a father might want a say in who does or does not court his daughter, especially when said individual is considerably older and she is only 18?

    Is this worth telling off the priest and being banned from the chapel?

    The bottom line is that either the priest or this girl's father was disconcerted about your talking to her, no matter what your intentions. It may have been disturbing her or her parents even if it was innocent.

    In that case, better to avoid even the appearance of impropriety and obey the priest. Of course, in these matters, emotion often overcomes reason.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #13 on: December 21, 2010, 12:11:50 PM »
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  • If we're going to quote these articles about pashtun pederasty and about the evils of refusing contact between the sexes because of concerns about honor, then it's only right to point out that it is a problem for Catholics.  Why on earth do we care about these Afghan tribes while trying to minimize the problems in the Church and the SSPX?

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #14 on: December 21, 2010, 12:13:53 PM »
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  • When the Church and SSPX advocate grooming impoverished boys to dress and dance like girls and then commit sex acts with them as part of normal culture, you can compare the two situations.

    Until then it is ridiculous.