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Author Topic: Abp. Vigano  (Read 3914 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Abp. Vigano
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2025, 01:37:59 PM »
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  • I shouldn't have to spend hours of my time beating back slanders and calumnies ... yet this place has been an open forum for such for a very long time now, and nothing is done.

    Of course, to make a point, I listed some of the misdeeds / mistakes / poor judgments of Bishop Richard Williamson which are all well known, well docuмented, secret to no one, and widely publicized ... so that there was hardly anyone here who's not heard about them, and it didn't so much as constitute detraction.

    But the Moderators was on top of that within seconds, editing out parts of the post, while he lets slander go on against Archbishop Thuc or Archbishop Vivano for years on end, ad nauseam, where some of us feel we need to spend hours of our time defending their honor against the hateful calumnies, and even after the stuff is thoroughly debunked, people continue spewing the same smears over and over again, just like the latest resurgence of the "Mason" slander.

    Of course, the chief slanderer claims that the only reason I was defending +Thuc was because I availed myself of +Thuc Sacraments for years.  Truth is that I think I went to Holy Communion at a CMRI chapel (+Thuc line) precisely once in my entire 36 years of being Traditional Catholics, and the rest were all +Lefebvre-ordained or independent priests.

    That has nothing to do with anything.  I have serious disagreements with CMRI, but will defend them against the smears of being Old Catholics or that their Orders are invalid, simply because other errors does not entitle people to smear them with malicious lies.  I'll even occasionally defend Prevost and Bergoglio against lies.

    I've even taken the very unpopular position that Prevost/Tucho's decision on Our Lady's title of Co-Redemptrix was nowhere near the worst of what they had done, pointing out that even some theologians before Vatican II felt that the title was misleading, problematic, and best avoided ... for serious theological reasons, and also pointing out, in fairness to Prevost and Tucho, that they did NOT say the title was intrinsically incorrect, but just that the "correct meaning" required so much explanation that it was not considered useful or appropriate.  That comment implied that there could be a correct meaning, and Tucho followed up saying it's OK for private use, just they didn't put it into use in public liturgy due to it requiring too much explanation.

    But because Tucho the Mouth Healer has become so despised, I guess it was considered OK to just make things about about what he actually wrote (or, rather, I doubt he wrote a word of it himself).  It's not.  There's plenty of real stuff to criticize them for, and when we make things up, it just discredits us as being bitter and irrational and grinding axes, just as the Catholic Answers and other pope-splainers went after Trads for on this topic.

    Now, while there's certainly reason to question whether their stated motives (not illegitimate in themselves) were sincere, since ... when have they ever cared about causing "confusion" ever before?  Bergoglio reveled in causing chaos and "messes", thinking it was healthy, and Fiducia Supplicans + Amoris Laetitia were about as confusing as one could get.  Yet in those cases, they believed it was sufficient for Bergs to add a note in, say FS, that "marriage is still between a man and a woman, and don't allow these blessings to resemble wedding ceremonies", and that was sufficient to offset or dispel the confusion there ... but they couldn't come up with a sentence or two to define and explain "Co-Redemptrix", eh?  That smells of ulterior motive, but it's not proof.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Abp. Vigano
    « Reply #16 on: December 31, 2025, 06:00:23 PM »
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  • No, it's not about "offense" but about truth, justice vs. detraction and calumny.  What's a "scandal" is for radical SV mini-popes to declare +Vigano for no legitimate reason whatsoever.

    Has your hatred for the man also crippled your brain where you take a clip that's under 2 minutes and conclude from that that, what?, it's the only thing he's every talked about and that he hasn't addressed other issues?  You could find 20-minute clips of Bishop Williamson talking about Oklahoma City, about Putin / Ukraine, 9/11, the h0Ɩ0h0αx, etc.

    So bishops are not allowed to take 2 minutes out of their day to make a statement about a lawyer who was imprisoned for attempting to expose the COVID hoax?

    Will you give him permission to use the toilet ... given that there are millions on the way to hell?

    Are you insane?

    What's wrong with some of you people?

    Archbishop Vigano publishes his sermons online, and various other writings, and he treats of all kinds of subjects, including many of the things you listed there.  But that's ALL he can say?  I've rarely seen anyone post something more stupid than this, and it's evidence of that fact that the radical SVs have never given the man the slightest benefit of the doubt but have some deep-seated contempt for him simply because he had been in the Novus Ordo, and are looking for about anything they can find to slander him.

    This is reinforced by the fact that you add disrespect to the slander by referring to him as "this guy".  That's not how you address a bishop or a priest, buddy.  I have serious disagreements with Bishop Pivarunas, and many others, but I'd never have the temerity to call him "this guy".

    And of course much of the content depends on your audience.  I've never seen a Traditional Catholic priest, in 35 years, speak out against contraception, for instance, or atheism, or most of the things you list.  Why?  Because it's a waste of time in the context of Traditional Catholics, where you're preaching to the choir.

    You need to examine your conscience.
    .

    Okay, let me explain.

    First of all, Vigano is not an archbishop. He was given this title by John Paul 2, who has no authority to make anyone anything. If Vigano were really as traditional as you think he is, he would reject this fake title, along with the heresiarch who gave it to him. But where has Vigano condemned John Paul 2 for any of the heresies he has ever said, or for Assisi, or kissing the Koran, or any of his other apostasies? I would like to see it if he has ever said this. I would also like to see if Vigano has ever said he does not consider himself an archbishop, since that requires 1) being a bishop for starters, and 2) being appointed such by a true pope.

    Speaking of being a bishop, Vigano claims to have been consecrated a bishop by John Paul 2. He has stated publicly that he considers the Novus Ordo sacraments to be valid, and this was even after his excommunication, I believe. He has never retracted these views. If he were a real traditional bishop, he would renounce his modernist consecration and his fake title from a fake pope, and say he is just Father Vigano, since only his ordination (I guess?) is valid.

    While I have read him condemning Bergoglio many times, I have never heard him denounce Paul VI or John Paul II as heretics. I hope I am wrong, but I would need to see where he has done this. If he accepts both those men as true popes, and doesn't even have anything bad to say against them, then I don't see how he can be considered a traditional Catholic. Both Paul VI and John Paul II spent their entire lives destroying the Catholic Faith, and this has been well docuмented, in a way that anyone with a computer can find out about, so everyone who wants to believe in the Catholic Faith knows this.

    I listened to the sermon you linked to in support of his preaching of the gospel, and it actually confirmed what I was saying. A sermon is supposed to tell the hearer what he is supposed to do in order to be saved. Our Lord's sermons in the gospels all do this. "Do penance, lest ye all likewise perish." But this "sermon" of Vigano was typical of all the other sermons I've heard from him. It does not tell the listener to do anything. All it says is, "There are evil globalists out there destroying the world. These men are evil." That message does not get anyone to heaven. Yes, he spent a couple of sentences in those many long paragraphs (and it was not much more than that) talking about the holiness of the family and the virtue of purity, but it was in the context of "These same evil men I am talking about are trying to destroy the family and the virtue of purity." He said nothing about the listener avoiding sin.

    Did Our Lord stand around all day talking about the evil morals of the pagan Romans? What good would that have done? No, He told His hearers how to obtain salvation. I didn't see anything to that effect in that sermon you linked to, so that kind of proves my point.

    As far as your comment about my lack of respect by calling him "that guy", and how you don't call Bp. Pivarunas "that guy", the difference is that Bp. Pivarunas is a Catholic bishop, validly consecrated, who rejected Vatican 2 and its false popes and all the false teachings from the false church. He was consecrated a bishop by a similarly Catholic bishop who rejected Vatican 2, who consecrated him to carry on the work of the Church in opposing the modernist revolution, and therefore lawfully functions as a bishop for the good of souls.

    But Vigano has either not been validly consecrated a bishop at all, or if he has, he has been so in contradiction to his publicly stated assertions that he accepts the modernist sacraments as valid, thus causing grave scandal by telling people that modernist sacraments are valid while he himself believes in practice that they are not. And he publicly claims to be an archbishop on the grounds that he was appointed to such a post by the heresiarch John Paul 2, who appointed him to that post in reward for his service to the modernist institution.

    Now, I believe in repentance and forgiveness for everyone, but only for those who reject their errors. But Vigano has not rejected his fake title of archbishop from the fake pope who gave it to him, nor has he rejected the antichrist of our times Paul VI who destroyed the Catholic Church, nor has he rejected the fake doubtful sacraments from this demon in human form.

    If I am wrong about any of these facts, I would like to be corrected, but I hope that explains my words about Vigano.


    Offline songbird

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    Re: Abp. Vigano
    « Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 01:13:00 PM »
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  • thank you for your  post, Yeti.  What you posted is very true.

    Offline Michelle

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    Re: Abp. Vigano
    « Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 02:48:46 PM »
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  • .

    Okay, let me explain.

    First of all, Vigano is not an archbishop. He was given this title by John Paul 2, who has no authority to make anyone anything. If Vigano were really as traditional as you think he is, he would reject this fake title, along with the heresiarch who gave it to him. But where has Vigano condemned John Paul 2 for any of the heresies he has ever said, or for Assisi, or kissing the Koran, or any of his other apostasies? I would like to see it if he has ever said this. I would also like to see if Vigano has ever said he does not consider himself an archbishop, since that requires 1) being a bishop for starters, and 2) being appointed such by a true pope.

    Speaking of being a bishop, Vigano claims to have been consecrated a bishop by John Paul 2. He has stated publicly that he considers the Novus Ordo sacraments to be valid, and this was even after his excommunication, I believe. He has never retracted these views. If he were a real traditional bishop, he would renounce his modernist consecration and his fake title from a fake pope, and say he is just Father Vigano, since only his ordination (I guess?) is valid.

    While I have read him condemning Bergoglio many times, I have never heard him denounce Paul VI or John Paul II as heretics. I hope I am wrong, but I would need to see where he has done this. If he accepts both those men as true popes, and doesn't even have anything bad to say against them, then I don't see how he can be considered a traditional Catholic. Both Paul VI and John Paul II spent their entire lives destroying the Catholic Faith, and this has been well docuмented, in a way that anyone with a computer can find out about, so everyone who wants to believe in the Catholic Faith knows this.

    I listened to the sermon you linked to in support of his preaching of the gospel, and it actually confirmed what I was saying. A sermon is supposed to tell the hearer what he is supposed to do in order to be saved. Our Lord's sermons in the gospels all do this. "Do penance, lest ye all likewise perish." But this "sermon" of Vigano was typical of all the other sermons I've heard from him. It does not tell the listener to do anything. All it says is, "There are evil globalists out there destroying the world. These men are evil." That message does not get anyone to heaven. Yes, he spent a couple of sentences in those many long paragraphs (and it was not much more than that) talking about the holiness of the family and the virtue of purity, but it was in the context of "These same evil men I am talking about are trying to destroy the family and the virtue of purity." He said nothing about the listener avoiding sin.

    Did Our Lord stand around all day talking about the evil morals of the pagan Romans? What good would that have done? No, He told His hearers how to obtain salvation. I didn't see anything to that effect in that sermon you linked to, so that kind of proves my point.

    As far as your comment about my lack of respect by calling him "that guy", and how you don't call Bp. Pivarunas "that guy", the difference is that Bp. Pivarunas is a Catholic bishop, validly consecrated, who rejected Vatican 2 and its false popes and all the false teachings from the false church. He was consecrated a bishop by a similarly Catholic bishop who rejected Vatican 2, who consecrated him to carry on the work of the Church in opposing the modernist revolution, and therefore lawfully functions as a bishop for the good of souls.

    But Vigano has either not been validly consecrated a bishop at all, or if he has, he has been so in contradiction to his publicly stated assertions that he accepts the modernist sacraments as valid, thus causing grave scandal by telling people that modernist sacraments are valid while he himself believes in practice that they are not. And he publicly claims to be an archbishop on the grounds that he was appointed to such a post by the heresiarch John Paul 2, who appointed him to that post in reward for his service to the modernist institution.

    Now, I believe in repentance and forgiveness for everyone, but only for those who reject their errors. But Vigano has not rejected his fake title of archbishop from the fake pope who gave it to him, nor has he rejected the antichrist of our times Paul VI who destroyed the Catholic Church, nor has he rejected the fake doubtful sacraments from this demon in human form.

    If I am wrong about any of these facts, I would like to be corrected, but I hope that explains my words about Vigano.
    I also agree with you.  Vigano's involvement with the ReAwaken America tour, which many speakers are New Age, and his constant endorsement of Trump is very disturbing to me.  He never called on those participating to the conversion to the true faith or condemned Trumps pro-sodimite, pro-Israel, pro-abortion stances.  He focuses on a deep state and deep church as the boogie men rather than our personal sins which cry out to God for vengeance.  My personal opinion is he may be an infiltrator into the resistance and sedevacantists camps.  By throwing out some traditional Catholic statements, he makes himself appear traditional.  Of course, this is only my opinion and I truly pray for strong Catholic leaders to preach true Catholic dogma.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Abp. Vigano
    « Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 03:56:00 PM »
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  • :facepalm:  Archbishop is simply a title related to jurisdiction.  A heretic pope could still have jurisdiction.  Unless you’re arguing that for the last 60 years, the Church’s dioceses and every major office is empty?

    Even during the Arian heresy, the Church never said that every office was empty or that jurisdiction (from heretic bishops) was invalid.  

    This is where the “nuts and bolts” of Sedevacantism fails.  You can believe it all you want, but there’s no “working model” of sedeism that can explain the crisis 100%.  

    And you start questioning jurisdictional titles, even when supplied jurisdiction is a real thing, and it shows your application of sedeism to real life fails in many ways.  


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Abp. Vigano
    « Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 04:06:51 PM »
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  • I don’t agree with +Vigano 100%, but neither did I agree with +W, or +ABL or +Dolan, +Sanborn, etc.  

    That being said the reasons that the 2 major Trad camps completely write him off are just dishonest.  Objections to him are based on personal issues, not solid objections.  

    The new-sspx disagrees with him because Vigano is against V2/new mass.  The new-sspx is so liberalized that they can’t even critique new Rome anymore.  

    The Sedes are against him because he’s not a dogmatic Sedevacantist.  Vigano basically talks about a Sede-privationist view but that’s “not good enough” for the autistic, binary, foaming at the mouth dogmatic sedeists.  

    The 2 camps of Traddom are getting more and more divided, just like the political arena.  And people are more, and more losing the mental capacity to think and consider views which are contrary to theirs.  

    Division and lack of critical thinking is hurting Tradition more than anything else.  Vigano proves it.  

    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: Abp. Vigano, about Rainer Feullmich
    « Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 07:45:00 PM »
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  • When was this video recorded?

    ... "
    YouTuber: Het Nieuve Normaal posted it Dec 5, 2025. Might be others who posted earlier...?
    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Abp. Vigano
    « Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 10:49:09 PM »
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  • No, it's not about "offense" but about truth, justice vs. detraction and calumny.  What's a "scandal" is for radical SV mini-popes to declare +Vigano for no legitimate reason whatsoever.

    Has your hatred for the man also crippled your brain where you take a clip that's under 2 minutes and conclude from that that, what?, it's the only thing he's every talked about and that he hasn't addressed other issues?  You could find 20-minute clips of Bishop Williamson talking about Oklahoma City, about Putin / Ukraine, 9/11, the h0Ɩ0h0αx, etc.

    So bishops are not allowed to take 2 minutes out of their day to make a statement about a lawyer who was imprisoned for attempting to expose the COVID hoax?

    Will you give him permission to use the toilet ... given that there are millions on the way to hell?

    Are you insane?

    What's wrong with some of you people?

    Archbishop Vigano publishes his sermons online, and various other writings, and he treats of all kinds of subjects, including many of the things you listed there.  But that's ALL he can say?  I've rarely seen anyone post something more stupid than this, and it's evidence of that fact that the radical SVs have never given the man the slightest benefit of the doubt but have some deep-seated contempt for him simply because he had been in the Novus Ordo, and are looking for about anything they can find to slander him.

    This is reinforced by the fact that you add disrespect to the slander by referring to him as "this guy".  That's not how you address a bishop or a priest, buddy.  I have serious disagreements with Bishop Pivarunas, and many others, but I'd never have the temerity to call him "this guy".

    And of course much of the content depends on your audience.  I've never seen a Traditional Catholic priest, in 35 years, speak out against contraception, for instance, or atheism, or most of the things you list.  Why?  Because it's a waste of time in the context of Traditional Catholics, where you're preaching to the choir.

    You need to examine your conscience.

    Yeah Yeti... You're anti-Opus JuDei and probably an antisemite too.


    :popcorn:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Abp. Vigano
    « Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 10:56:54 PM »
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  • :facepalm:  Archbishop is simply a title related to jurisdiction.  A heretic pope could still have jurisdiction.  Unless you’re arguing that for the last 60 years, the Church’s dioceses and every major office is empty?

    Even during the Arian heresy, the Church never said that every office was empty or that jurisdiction (from heretic bishops) was invalid. 

    This is where the “nuts and bolts” of Sedevacantism fails.  You can believe it all you want, but there’s no “working model” of sedeism that can explain the crisis 100%. 

    And you start questioning jurisdictional titles, even when supplied jurisdiction is a real thing, and it shows your application of sedeism to real life fails in many ways. 

    And where "Recognize & Resist" fails is in believing Opus Dei's Kayfabe story line that Vigano is a real convert Trad and Bernadine's jew-boy seminarian, Bob Prevost is the Pope.

    :laugh1:

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Abp. Vigano
    « Reply #24 on: Today at 10:44:18 AM »
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  • ... Kayfabe story line that Vigano is a real convert Trad

    So you persist in your objectively grave sin of slander against Archbishop Vigano, despite multiple warnings.

    There's no evidence whatsover that +Vigano's conversion is not real ... and not a single one of you slanderers has provided a shred of evidence, NOR even a credible "cui bono".  Every conspiracy requires at the very least some credible "cui bono" or some planned goal of the conspiracy.

    But the slanderers have come up with absolutely nothing.  I'm sure that +Vigano has converted many sedevacantists to R&R, right?  Or that's he's pulling people back into the Conciliar Church instead of the other direction.  Oh, the first line was that he was going to start a rival Trad group, and then provide invalid Ordinations.  So he's received conditional consecration (there goes that theory ... you wouldn't do that if you're a conspirator but would relish the doubt caused, like with Huonder), and he's founded no rival Trad group, with his following consisting of a handful of "cancelled" Novus Ordo priests who wandered over from the Conciliar Church.  He's sedevacantist at least for Bergoglio and Prevost, and has hinted at being open to it for the others.  He's caused a lot of Conciliar types to wake up, people who were terrified of saying anything negative about an Ecuмenical Council or the New Mass ... until they saw this high-profile Bishop (high-profile because of McCarrick) calling those things out.

    This is more of the slander that Matthew allows to go unchecked her on CathInfo and for which God will hold him accoutable.  And you need to examine your conscience about spewing this slander and calumny, and if you were sincere you'd avoid the Sacraments until you've had a chance to got to Confession, make amendment, and retract your slanders in an attempt to undo the harm you're doing to Archbishop Vigano's good name.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Abp. Vigano
    « Reply #25 on: Today at 10:52:40 AM »
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  • SVs in particular are master slanderers ... accusing one person after another of being "controlled opposition" simply for not being dogmatic SVs, as if someone couldn't simply be WRONG about something.  These are the same types who long accused Archbishop Lefebvre of being controlled opposition since he wasn't SV.  But SVism is just so obvious that only an agent of controlled opposition would not see its glorious light.  Perhaps some of them are turned off to SVism by the gaggle of slanderers they constantly see out there, eh?

    This reminds me of Fr(?) Ripperger, where anything bad that happens must be a demon, so that if you have flatulence, it's the "demon of flatulence", and not the bean burrito you had eaten for dinner.

    Unless you have significant, credible evidence that someone isn't just WRONG about something, then these accusations are nothing short of slander and calumny.  And at the very least you have to be able to point to some harm they're doing in order to justify the speculation at all.

    Someone like Huonder or Schneider ... solid cases can be made for them based on their behavior and the context of their activities, and you can see the harm they're doing (well, past tense of Huonder), gatekeeping people from leaving the Conciliar Church.

    There's literally absolutely nothing in terms of harm that anyone has pointed to for +Vigano, and not a shred of evidence, circuмstantial or otherwise, to indicate that he's not a "real convert Trad".  Nothing.  Zero.  Just a few ridiculous crackpot slanders about "So may it be." and that he's a Luciferian sun worshipper since he referred to Christ as the Sun ... which not a few Church Fathers did.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Abp. Vigano
    « Reply #26 on: Today at 11:01:26 AM »
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  • I also agree with you.  Vigano's involvement with the ReAwaken America tour, which many speakers are New Age, and his constant endorsement of Trump is very disturbing to me.  He never called on those participating to the conversion to the true faith or condemned Trumps pro-sodimite, pro-Israel, pro-abortion stances.  He focuses on a deep state and deep church as the boogie men rather than our personal sins which cry out to God for vengeance.  My personal opinion is he may be an infiltrator into the resistance and sedevacantists camps.  By throwing out some traditional Catholic statements, he makes himself appear traditional.  Of course, this is only my opinion and I truly pray for strong Catholic leaders to preach true Catholic dogma.

    That's all nonsense, more narrative from the slanderers.  He gave a 5-minute pre-recorded video talk to what was primarily a political rally, about a specific topic.

    I called out the lies earlier about his forcus on political things rather than spiritual ... slanderer who have not read his body of works, but takes 2-minute clips out of context from the rest of his work to smear him with.  This clown clumniator says he talks about nothing other than politics, and never talks about sin or theology, and I posted links to his 5 volumes of sermons following the Liturgical Year, and postsed his last one on Christmas, where he called out all the sins that this same slanderous clown listed as his "NEVER" talking about.

    Do I need to post his sermons again, showing precisely where he's condemned one sin after another?  No, I shouldn't have to, since you should have done the research before spewing your slanders and your lies.  Go actually learn about what he's said, taught, etc. ... before spewing slander on internet forums.

    Your "personal opinion" is nothing but slander.  You're just a bunch of liars who make this crap up without knowing anything about what he spends most of his time speaking about.  He takes 2 minutes to speak on behalf of someone jailed for opposing the Plandemic, and now that's ALL he talks about.  You could find 30-minute talks from Bishop Williamson about political isues, FAR MORE time than +Vigano has ever spent on them.

    He's infiltrated nothing, you liar ... with very little connection to any other groups, other than having sought conditional consecration from Bishop Wiliamson.  He has no ongoing relationship with any group.  He's done absolutely nothing to draw people away from these groups, not "converted" a single sedevacantist or R&R to ... to what?  I don't even know what he'd be converting them to, or what he's accomplished.  If he's controlled opposition infiltrator ... he's got to be the lamest controlled opposition gatekeeper in the history of controlled opposition infiltrators.  Least he could have done was to not be conditionally ordained and then start ordaining some Trad priests, and start drawing vocations from SSPX and SV seminaries, etc.  He's dont absolutely nothing as an "infilitrator".

    As for his support of Trump, despite the narrative of his slanderers, he's made a total of 3-4 statements about Trump, most of which, if you look at the diplomatic language, were simply calculated to tug on Trump's ego in order to get him to move in the right direction.  He's a trained diplomat and knows that Trump has a yuge ego that can be manipulated.  If you look at what he wrote in that one letter the sladerers pounce on, he made some very-well crafted statements that appealed to Trump's ego while saying that he "dared hope" that Trump was sincere, motivated by good, etc.  He knows that if you criticize Trump, he'll just double down in the opposite direction of the criticism, since that's just who the guy is.  But there's nothing even remotely egregious about his support for Trump, and again it's more people who take the 3 or 4 sentences he's said on the matter out of context.

    And, to the extent he did support Trump, he was wrong.  I was practically shouted won off this forum, while Matthew allowed Conciliar trolls to come in here shilling for Trump, and was himself shiling for Trump, and then celebrating when Trump got elected.  So is Matthew also an infiltrator?  Or just wrong?  I was told that all Trad priests contradicted me and that therefore I was wrong to oppose Trump.  So even long-standing Trad priests were out there promoting a vote for Trump and butchering Catholic moral theology to do so.  Maybe they're all infiltrators too.  Or ... they're just wrong.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Abp. Vigano
    « Reply #27 on: Today at 11:11:52 AM »
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  • What I posted above is critical.

    IF +VIGANO IS A CONTROLLED OPPOSITION INFILTRATOR, HE'S THE LAMEST CONTROLLED OPPOSITION INFILTRATOR IN THE HISTORY OF CONTROLLED OPPOSITION INFILITRATORS.

    This speaks to the fact that a remotely credible conspiracy theory requires at the very least a halfway decent cui bono.  What has +Vigano accomplished ... pulling people away from SV groups, from the Resistance?  I doubt a single individual from those groups has even been slightly influenced.  Only influence he's exerted has been on conservative Conciliar types, breaking the taboo they had set up against criticizing Vatican II or the New Mass, which is step in the right direction, removing a major obstacle from some of them becoming Traditional Catholics.  He received conditional consecration ... and you'd expected a controlled opposition person not to have, precisely to create doubt and confusion among any priests he might unlreash out there.  He's not founded any significant rival group, just basically a halfway house for priests leaving the Conciliar Church.