Author Topic: Wine or whine? (Read 1214 times)

Pelly · « **on:** July 30, 2013, 02:34:36 PM »

According to some, the Precious Blood cannot be given to a layman in TLM. But some health conditions, like celiac disease or wheat allergy, require giving the Chalice. Does the TLM make exceptions for allergics?
But some still think that giving the Chalice out is a liberal, oecuмenist, irreverent abomination. Low-gluten hosts may help less severe celiacs, but the fact that they had been discovered recently and propagated by Ratzinger, a manifest heretic, not to mention that they're overly processed.
I do not support breaking the Host, because a severe allergic may receive only a crumb, which can lose the Presence upon contacting the mucous membrane of the mouth.
Plus, wine would require a larger dose since it goes away easier. (For First Communions: is mustum valid matter?)
So this is my question: wine or whine? AKA. Can a celiac Tradcat take the Wine or (s)he still has to complain about the doctors' laziness, etc.

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2013, 03:37:52 PM »

Please tell me you're not seriously going to let a bunch of laypeople take one of the most serious issues a person can face (namely, an apparent physiological inability to receive the Host) and turn it into another battle royale in which uneducated people who have no charism to teach will attempt to parse the words of another amateur layperson.

Stop posting this kind of hypothetical nonsense. There is only one answer to your fictitious situation: a person so afflicted needs to confer with their Father confessor. Period.

Your opinion and the opinions of any of us mean zero. The Church alone has the Divine authority to dispense with Her normal requirements for reception of the Sacraments and you nor I have a single clue how someone with God-given jurisdiction in such a matter could or would answer.

Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon!

Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

poche · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2013, 11:22:28 PM »

Quote from: Pelly

According to some, the Precious Blood cannot be given to a layman in TLM. But some health conditions, like celiac disease or wheat allergy, require giving the Chalice. Does the TLM make exceptions for allergics?
But some still think that giving the Chalice out is a liberal, oecuмenist, irreverent abomination. Low-gluten hosts may help less severe celiacs, but the fact that they had been discovered recently and propagated by Ratzinger, a manifest heretic, not to mention that they're overly processed.
I do not support breaking the Host, because a severe allergic may receive only a crumb, which can lose the Presence upon contacting the mucous membrane of the mouth.
Plus, wine would require a larger dose since it goes away easier. (For First Communions: is mustum valid matter?)
So this is my question: wine or whine? AKA. Can a celiac Tradcat take the Wine or (s)he still has to complain about the doctors' laziness, etc.

No one recieves wine at Holy Communion. They recieve the Precious Blood of Jesus. I have seen some instances where the Precious Blood was given at the TLM at Holy Communion when there was apparantly a prior arrangement.

Pelly · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2013, 04:14:54 AM »

@poche Let me guess: Indult Masses? Liberal parishes?
What will other Traditionalists think of that priest who gave out the Precious Blood for a health reason? It's sad that you've said some instances. Maybe there's a few celiacs out there in Tradland or maybe the parishes fear the SSPX's or the CMRI's strict compliance to rules. Some parishes may give out the Chalice upon request while some just won't do it. Are the parishes that give out the Chalice for special cases commit liturgical abuse?
Since we, Tradcats don't have a Holy See until She repents, we have to rely on the priestly associations such as SSPX, CMRI and the like. And not to mention those countries where SSPX or other Tradcat bishops are absent. And the Resistance movement in the case when something with the SSPX goes awry.

poche · « **Reply #4 on:** August 01, 2013, 12:33:16 AM »

Quote from: Pelly

@poche Let me guess: Indult Masses? Liberal parishes?
What will other Traditionalists think of that priest who gave out the Precious Blood for a health reason? It's sad that you've said some instances. Maybe there's a few celiacs out there in Tradland or maybe the parishes fear the SSPX's or the CMRI's strict compliance to rules. Some parishes may give out the Chalice upon request while some just won't do it. Are the parishes that give out the Chalice for special cases commit liturgical abuse?
Since we, Tradcats don't have a Holy See until She repents, we have to rely on the priestly associations such as SSPX, CMRI and the like. And not to mention those countries where SSPX or other Tradcat bishops are absent. And the Resistance movement in the case when something with the SSPX goes awry.

I have seen someone who apparently has celiacs disease or some similar disorder recieve the Precious Blood from the chalice and I believe that there is a prior arrangement. It is not my intention to dispute with you whether it is a good thing or not. However, when a person recieves from thechalice in this manner, they are recieving the Precious Blood of Our Lord. They are not taking a drink of wine. And when they recieve from the chalice they recieve the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Himself.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2013, 12:57:50 AM »

The host is "under the appearance" of bread. It's no longer wheat anymore... :stare:

Also, unleavened bread, contains NO GLUTEN!

Pelly · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2013, 02:42:26 PM »

@parentsforthruth :confused1:

ShepherdofSheep · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2013, 03:01:38 PM »

While a consecrated Host is indeed the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, it still retains the accidents of wheat.

Gluten is a protein composite in wheat and certain other grains which aids in dough rising and gives it elasticity, but in and of itself has nothing to do with leavened bread. Unleavened only means that the bread was not prepared with a leavening agent such as yeast.