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Author Topic: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?  (Read 2787 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2023, 09:35:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: poenitens on October 16, 2023, 09:28:53 PM
    Looks bad. I'd probably have to press the priest more with questions and make a decision. Thanks, Sean

    Well, the oils went to Germany and Asia, and you’re in Mexico.

    Did the oils also go elsewhere?  

    Possibly.

    By all means, ask the priest who consecrated the oils the bishop will use.
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    Offline poenitens

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #16 on: October 16, 2023, 09:41:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 16, 2023, 09:35:17 PM
    Well, the oils went to Germany and Asia, and you’re in Mexico.
    I know, this is just one more reason to distrust.
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    Offline poenitens

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #17 on: October 16, 2023, 10:03:36 PM »
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    • Another issue is that the priest does not believe that there is any problem with Huonder and his oils. I don't think he, the priest, is insincere, but if he believes everything is fine, that could lessen in his mind the seriousness of the situation.

    Too many uncertain things, should I cancel?

    My other possibilities are Bp. Dávila Gandara (consecrated by +Pivarunas). I think he is relatively accessible but I'll have to start attending his priests' masses regularly with the hope that in a few years, he'll come to my city to offer confirmation. I really don't have time for that. I need to get surgery in a year maximum. The
    Resistance has been ellusive thus far.

    I've been praying the Rosary mystery of Pentecost with the special intention that I get validly confirmed. Maybe the fact that there is all this uncertainty is a message from Heaven telling me to quit this possibility.
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    Offline poenitens

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #18 on: October 16, 2023, 10:33:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on October 15, 2023, 11:52:34 PM
    There are only three (legitimate) SSPX currently.

    You said that Bp. Galarreta was in the US for the Chrismal Mass, where were Bp. Fellay and Bp. de Mallerais?

    Given the geographical proximity, it seems more logical to me that the oils used in France were consecrated in Econe, Switzerland. There was a Chrismal Mass there this year: https://econe.fsspx.org/fr/news-events/news/les-offices-de-la-semaine-sainte-73036

    It seems that Bp. de Mallerais has been conducting the latest Econe cerimonies: https://econe.fsspx.org/fr/media/photos/sacerdoce-et-diaconat-juin-2023-83722

    Considering his frail health and age, he is probably not traveling that much. I would imagine that he was the one who was there for Holy Week this year.
    Thanks, Giovanni. I wrote them a message via the form in their website asking them who consecrated the oils there and if those are going to be used in France.
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    Offline trento

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #19 on: October 17, 2023, 12:51:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 16, 2023, 08:07:22 PM
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but according to Fr. Rousseau (Resistance - Switzerland):

    "Who knows whether, in the future, priests of the Society will not go begging for the Holy Oils of bishops consecrated by Bishop Williamson, as happened after Easter this year in Germany, when these priests refused the Holy Oils consecrated by Bishop Huonder at the seminary in Zaitzkofen? (Note, by the way, that these "German" Holy Thursday Oils were given for all priests of the Society of St. Pius X residing in Asia: to say that the Oils will have been circuмscribed to a limited country is false)."
    https://resistance.vraiforum.com/t1550-Profondement-peine-par-Mgr-Williamson.htm

    The source of this information doesn't seem credible. Holy oils are not distributed via mail like some Amazon order. The priests goes to the seminaries (where the oils are consecrated) and personally brings the oils back to their stationed locations to be distributed. Several priests stationed in Asia have been to Dilwyn, Econe and France in the past two years. I have yet to hear that any of them went to Germany.
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #20 on: October 17, 2023, 04:01:16 AM »
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    • Quote from: poenitens on October 16, 2023, 10:03:36 PM
    Another issue is that the priest does not believe that there is any problem with Huonder and his oils. I don't think he, the priest, is insincere, but if he believes everything is fine, that could lessen in his mind the seriousness of the situation.


    This seems to be common in the SSPX.
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    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #21 on: October 17, 2023, 06:20:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: trento on October 17, 2023, 12:51:04 AM
    The source of this information doesn't seem credible. Holy oils are not distributed via mail like some Amazon order.
    They are often distributed by mail.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #22 on: October 17, 2023, 06:21:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: trento on October 17, 2023, 12:51:04 AM
    The source of this information doesn't seem credible. Holy oils are not distributed via mail like some Amazon order. The priests goes to the seminaries (where the oils are consecrated) and personally brings the oils back to their stationed locations to be distributed. Several priests stationed in Asia have been to Dilwyn, Econe and France in the past two years. I have yet to hear that any of them went to Germany.

    The source of this information does not seem credible.  Holy oils are not received like a McDonalds drive thru.  90 US District priests aren’t expected to book flights to Dilwyn to pick up their oils.  Can you imagine every Asian priest being required to book a flight to Germany or Econe?
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    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #23 on: October 17, 2023, 12:44:48 PM »
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    • I imagine that these bishops hopping flights to other countries cannot carry the oils with them.  Most airlines, post 9-11, started forbidding "any" liquid that is not in a sealed container.  Many of these people end up tossing out hand lotion and all other kind of liquids because of this nonsense.  This would necessarily mean that the bishop would rely on the oils retained by the priest.

    And I also imagine that the bishops do not want mail the oils lest they get lost, stolen or the oils spill out.  This creates a problem as well.  
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #24 on: October 17, 2023, 02:11:34 PM »
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    • A new problem was created now. I mean, how do these oils get to the priories?

    It seems plausible that in some places they are taken by land. I mean, it doesn't sound that absurd to travel by car from the US to Mexico or to Canada, but in places like Asia this is impossible.

    I imagine that a travelling priest could somehow seal a package and take it with him in the plane. We have some European priests around, and they travel to their homeland at least once a year, as I have noticed.
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    Offline poenitens

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #25 on: October 17, 2023, 02:19:11 PM »
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    • I think it depends on the amount of oil. Maybe is not that much.

    The priest that comes here carries around a little tube with several compartments for the oils. It is a little bit larger than a lipstick. I imagine that you can carry several of those tubes in a plane with no problem.

    BTW: does that tube have a name?
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #26 on: October 17, 2023, 02:42:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: poenitens on October 17, 2023, 02:19:11 PM
    I think it depends on the amount of oil. Maybe is not that much.

    The priest that comes here carries around a little tube with several compartments for the oils. It is a little bit larger than a lipstick. I imagine that you can carry several of those tubes in a plane with no problem.

    BTW: does that tube have a name?

    The oils (plural) used to be carried in what was called a “chrismatory,” which was like a little chest carried around the priest’s neck, and contained several chambers (ie., one for each of the oils). 

    Not sure if there is a name for the tubes commonly in use in recent times?

    The more permanent/stationary cabinet in the sacristy in which the oils were/are stored was usually called an “ambry.”
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    Offline poenitens

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #27 on: October 17, 2023, 03:03:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 17, 2023, 02:42:12 PM
    The oils (plural) used to be carried in what was called a “chrismatory,” which was like a little chest carried around the priest’s neck, and contained several chambers (ie., one for each of the oils). 

    Not sure if there is a name for the tubes commonly in use in recent times?

    The more permanent/stationary cabinet in the sacristy in which the oils were/are stored was usually called an “ambry.”
    Thanks, Sean.

    The different compartments of the tube are for different kinds of oil, balsam, etc. that are used for baptism and extreme unction. 

    When the priest gave me the complement of baptism, he used at least two of those oils.
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    Offline trento

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #28 on: October 18, 2023, 02:48:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 17, 2023, 06:21:43 AM
    The source of this information does not seem credible.  Holy oils are not received like a McDonalds drive thru.  90 US District priests aren’t expected to book flights to Dilwyn to pick up their oils.  Can you imagine every Asian priest being required to book a flight to Germany or Econe?

    No one is claiming that ALL district priests need to go to the seminaries and collect the oils. One or two priests that are travelling may collect the oils on behalf of the other priests in their district. :facepalm:
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    Offline trento

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    Re: Who consecrated the SSPX oils used in France?
    « Reply #29 on: October 18, 2023, 02:50:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Plenus Venter on October 17, 2023, 06:20:56 AM
    They are often distributed by mail.
    It is quite dangerous to do that considering the risk of mails getting lost or the the risk of leakage. The holy oils are the next most sacred items in the Church after the Blessed Sacrament so there is a risk of profanation if these are distributed via mail.
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