Author Topic: What canons speak of this?  (Read 585 times)

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Offline Cryptinox

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What canons speak of this?
« on: May 26, 2020, 03:35:56 PM »
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  • Hello, I am seeking out a conditional confirmation, what canons in the 1983 and byzantine canon law speak about the faithful requesting conditional sacraments? I am asking this because I feel like speaking to a byzantine priest about reasons I doubt my 'confirmation' and trying to request a conditional one from him (byzantine priests have the faculties to confirm btw)

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #1 on: May 26, 2020, 08:57:16 PM »
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  • Eastern Rite priests would be unlikely to do it because they won't accept your contention that there's any doubt about it.

    I don't believe it's mentioned in Canon Law, but it's well known in Sacramental theology, and the Sacramental books contain formulas for the conditional Sacrament.

    Trick will be to convince the priest that there's positive doubt.  You could try a mental reservation:  "I'm not sure if I've ever been confirmed." ... which he might take to mean that you can't remember if you were or not.


    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #2 on: May 26, 2020, 09:31:33 PM »
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  • Eastern Rite priests would be unlikely to do it because they won't accept your contention that there's any doubt about it.

    I don't believe it's mentioned in Canon Law, but it's well known in Sacramental theology, and the Sacramental books contain formulas for the conditional Sacrament.

    Trick will be to convince the priest that there's positive doubt.  You could try a mental reservation:  "I'm not sure if I've ever been confirmed." ... which he might take to mean that you can't remember if you were or not.
    What about bringing up frequent problems in the new rite of confirmation such as using oils other than olive oil or bringing up the fact there is no imposition of hands

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #3 on: May 27, 2020, 11:20:32 AM »
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  • That won't work. All Eastern churches accept a chrismation as 'a fixer' sacrament. So in general if you even went to the Orthodox most just chrismate after w confession. There's no way to get it done unless you can prove it was done without olive oil.
    Only other way. You probably don't want to do the mental reservation since this is about a sacrament which means the priest had a right to know
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline poche

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #4 on: May 28, 2020, 11:01:13 PM »
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  • Hello, I am seeking out a conditional confirmation, what canons in the 1983 and byzantine canon law speak about the faithful requesting conditional sacraments? I am asking this because I feel like speaking to a byzantine priest about reasons I doubt my 'confirmation' and trying to request a conditional one from him (byzantine priests have the faculties to confirm btw)
    Where were you confirmed?
    Are you seeking confirmation from an eastern rite priest who is Catholic or an Orthodox priest?


    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #5 on: May 29, 2020, 10:19:51 PM »
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  • Where were you confirmed?
    Are you seeking confirmation from an eastern rite priest who is Catholic or an Orthodox priest?
    Catholic priest

    Offline poche

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #6 on: May 29, 2020, 11:09:40 PM »
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  • Catholic priest
    If it were a Catholic priest then he might want to see a recent certificate of your baptism. If there is a record of your confirmation noted then the Catholic Church says that you are already confirmed and to do it over again would be considered a sacrilege.  

    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #7 on: May 29, 2020, 11:16:01 PM »
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  • If it were a Catholic priest then he might want to see a recent certificate of your baptism. If there is a record of your confirmation noted then the Catholic Church says that you are already confirmed and to do it over again would be considered a sacrilege.  
    That is why I would ask for it to be conditionally done


    Offline Aristotl

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #8 on: May 30, 2020, 12:17:05 AM »
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  • If you are seeking a Traditional Confirmation shouldn't the be the 1918 Code? Just asking

    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #9 on: May 30, 2020, 12:54:17 AM »
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  • If you are seeking a Traditional Confirmation shouldn't the be the 1918 Code? Just asking
    A byzantine priest would accept the 1983 code as valid. I am interested in the byzantines since they have not changed their sacramental rites. If I were to get confirmed in the traditional latin rite I would want to have it be done by a non "line" priest or bishop.

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #10 on: May 30, 2020, 11:04:18 AM »
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  • The base theology of the Greeks is liberal, this is true of all Eastern churches. In general no one is going to care about your doubts about the sacrament being valid. For sacramental validity for basically all Eastern Catholics are going to tell you:
    If your confirmation was done by a bishop or priest using the form promulgated or approved by your heirarch ( Francis of Rome ) it's valid.
    Good luck in your search, you would be better off finding a Traditional Latin priest since most Eastern priests won't chrismate without your bishops permission
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا


    Offline poche

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #11 on: May 30, 2020, 10:39:22 PM »
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  • That is why I would ask for it to be conditionally done
    An eastern rite priest who is in communion with the Catholic Church would not do it. An Eastern Orthodox priest would confirm you but that would be in conjunction you entering into full communion with them.  

    Offline Aristotl

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #12 on: June 01, 2020, 03:41:51 PM »
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  • I disagree about the Byzantines they accepted John XXIII and attended the council. They changed the rites along with everyone else. 

    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #13 on: June 01, 2020, 04:05:53 PM »
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  • I disagree about the Byzantines they accepted John XXIII and attended the council. They changed the rites along with everyone else.
    Could you show me any proof for this? I doubt they changed their rites in any substantial manner. If they did change their rites it was probably like the 1962 rites of the sacraments that are valid but have stuff such as the bishops taking turns with imposing hands in episcopal consecration.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: What canons speak of this?
    « Reply #14 on: June 01, 2020, 04:07:06 PM »
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  • I disagree about the Byzantines they accepted John XXIII and attended the council. They changed the rites along with everyone else.

    No, the Byzantine Rite changes were extremely minor, mostly consisting of some melodies.

    According to you, then, the hierarchy has defected.  Every single Catholic bishop "accepted John XXIII".  There was perhaps a single bishop who did not attend the Council out of principle.

    Your litmus test for being Catholic and orthodox is utterly absurd.

    You ducked for cover early about the "pure" bishops, but you've come out with exactly what I suspected.  And then these nuns cover their tracks by lying that Pearce didn't attend Vatican II.


     

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