Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Wearing beards in the sanctuary  (Read 2079 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AJNC

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1002
  • Reputation: +567/-43
  • Gender: Male
Wearing beards in the sanctuary
« on: December 28, 2016, 10:54:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is from Traditio:
    http://www.traditio.com/comment/com1612.htm

    A Reader Asks: "Is It Traditionally Permitted
    For Altar Servers to Wear Beards at the Altar?"

    From: Leo

    The Romans Condemned Beards as an Effeminate Practice of the East
    Roman Priests Are Traditionally Prohibited from Wearing Beards
    Following St. Peter, Who Shaved His Beard when He Became Christian
    As It Is Considered Prideful in a Priest to Draw Attention to Himself
    The Same Practice Should Be Followed, as Far as Possible
    By Laymen Who Serve at the Altar, Most Particularly Young Laymen


    Dear TRADITIO Fathers:

    I am writing to ask you whether it is traditionally permitted for altar servers to wear beards at the altar. I don't remember any of the servers wearing beards in the past, but this practice seems to be becoming more common in Novus Ordo churches.

    The TRADITIO Fathers Reply.

        The Third Council of Carthage (397) forbade clerics to wear long hair or beards ("nec comam nutriat, nec barbam)" because a shaven face is one of the accepted external signs of the clerical state and is part of the habitus ecclesiasticus of clerics in the Roman Church, as well as being the Roman custom from ancient times into Christian times: "non nutriendi capillos nec in genis nec in mento."

        Roman priests are traditionally prohibited from wearing beards, as it is considered prideful in a priest, who is thereby drawing attention to himself, whereas the attention should be paid to Our Lord. The Romans were meticulously clean shaven until the time of the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ emperor Hadrian (r. 117-138), who adopted unRoman practices. The Romans considered facial hair effeminate and a trait of the effete East.

        The Jєωs who did not convert to Christianity retained their beards, as the Orthodox Jєωs do to this day. The Council of Limoge (1031) held that St. Peter shaved his beard when he became Christian, so his successor priests were expected to follow suit.

        Beards in Roman practice are considered prideful; the humble man shaves. The principle is the same for women: woman's uncovered hair in Church is considered prideful and exhibitionistic. That is why St. Paul enunciates the Christian principle: "But every woman praying or prophesying with her head not covered disgraceth her head" (1 Corinthians 11:5/DRV). In Islam, beards are viewed as an "adornment," and Mohammedan men are encouraged to wear them to honor the infidel Prophet Mohammed.

        For priests in particular, beards constitute practical problems of sacrilege. When Particles of the Most Blessed Sacrament or of the Most Precious Blood fall into a beard or moustache, how does one practically clean out the Particles or Droplets? If one has ever seen the Sacred Host fall onto the floor by accident and remembers how vigorously the priest attempted to clean out the Most Blessed Sacrament, sometimes cutting out parts of the carpet to burn, one understands why the Roman Catholic Church does not permit beards on its priests.

        Only limited exceptions were ever permitted to this traditional Roman practice, but the basic principle remains the rule. "Exceptio probat regulam." One sees many violations of Roman Catholic tradition and practice in the Newchurch of the New Order, a fact that is not surprising, as Newchurch is not the Roman Catholic Church. The same Roman traditional practice should be followed, as far as possible, by laymen who serve at the altar, most particularly young laymen.



    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31196
    • Reputation: +27113/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Wearing beards in the sanctuary
    « Reply #1 on: December 29, 2016, 06:51:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Talk about nit picking! Traditional Catholics are currently IN EXILE, eking out survival in various LIFEBOATS for crying out loud.

    They might as well complain about why so many Trad chapels have grown men serving, rather than (the ideal) boys and teenage boys.

    The solution is simple: end the Crisis in the Church, get the numbers WAY up, and there will be enough boys to serve Mass again. Problem solved! Boys can't grow beards.

    I disagree with this line of thinking. Having a beard is effeminate? That has to be the stupidest thing the Romans did/believed. First of all, God created men to naturally grow a beard. Second, there is nothing effeminate (whatever your definition: womanly, fastidious, or "metrosɛҳuąƖ") about NOT shaving off your beard. Now SHAVING one's beard literally makes you more like a woman, and it takes time (which homos love to spend on their appearance). So the truth is the exact opposite!

    Grown men shaving off their beard every day to be responsible and respectable was pounded into Baby Boomer heads by Gillette and other companies. How can we let Madison Avenue convince us -- with a straight face -- that God made a mistake, or did something wrong when he created our bodies?

    Seriously, if God wanted men to walk around with smooth faces, He could have easily done so -- just look at women!



    I will wear my goatee when I serve Mass, as a reminder to everyone that a middle-aged father of 7 is not the ideal altar server. I don't want to pretend that I'm younger, more clerical/eligible for the clerical state, or more single than I am!

    Let it be another sign of the Crisis we're living in, that we're not in normal times.

    I am prompt and willing to serve at the altar, don't get me wrong: but frankly I don't feel it is best for anyone. As much as serving at the altar is a great honor, so is leading the Gregorian chant during the Mass, or serving as a (proper, male) Coordinator of the chapel, to assure everything is ready, in good order, make sure everything goes smoothly, etc.

    Also, a father of 7 should be able to help his wife with all the young children -- and sit next to his wife so she doesn't have to feel like a single mother during Mass.

    I await my "relief".

    Still, I bet I'll miss serving Mass when I eventually don't have to -- for whatever reason.

    At least part of my decision (to favor the role of "cantor" over "altar server") is rational: Typically, in my experience, there are several altar servers out there for every 1 man who can sing chant proficiently.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31196
    • Reputation: +27113/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Wearing beards in the sanctuary
    « Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 06:58:06 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Another point -- both Traditio and the person writing in speak of wearing beards as a growing trend in the Novus Ordo.

    WHAT ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT? Most women can't grow beards.

    You're lucky to *get* a male server in the Novus Ordo these days. And that's at the conservative/average parishes. Far more than 50% of the altar servers are women.

    I think the Novus Ordo has bigger fish to fry than "unshaven male altar servers".



    And whatever "reasons" they give for why priests and/or altar servers should be clean-shaven, the fact remains that in EVERY RITE in the Catholic Church that isn't the Roman Rite, priests wear beards. It's hard to condemn all those Catholics.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 31196
    • Reputation: +27113/-494
    • Gender: Male
    Wearing beards in the sanctuary
    « Reply #3 on: December 29, 2016, 07:56:41 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Would Traditio condemn all these great Saints and citizens of heaven?

    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline nctradcath

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 485
    • Reputation: +270/-99
    • Gender: Male
    Wearing beards in the sanctuary
    « Reply #4 on: December 29, 2016, 08:56:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Amen.


    Offline Mercyandjustice

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 160
    • Reputation: +37/-17
    • Gender: Male
    Wearing beards in the sanctuary
    « Reply #5 on: January 22, 2017, 02:49:48 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here's what the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say. Very interesting!


    Quote
    Similarly in Greece and in Rome, shortly before the time of Christ, it was the fashion to shave, but from the accession of Hadrian onwards, as we may see from the existing statues of the Roman emperors, beards once more became the order of the day. With regard to the Christian clergy, no clear evidence is available for the early centuries. The Apostles, in our most ancient monuments, are for the most part represented as bearded, but not uniformly so. (See Weiss-Liebersdorff, Christus- und Apostelbilder, Freiburg, 1902.) St. Jerome seems to censure the practice of wearing long beards, but no very definite conclusion can be drawn from his allusions or from those of his contemporary, St. Augustine. The positive legislation on the subject for clerics appears to be Canon 44 of the so-called Fourth of Carthage, which in reality represents the synodal decrees of some council in Southern Gaul in the time of St. Cæsarius of Arles (c. 503). There it enjoined that a cleric is to allow neither hair nor beard to grow freely (Clericus nec comam nutriat nec barbam) though this prohibition is very probably directed only against beards of excessive length. Still this canon, which was widely quoted and is included in the "Corpus juris" had great influence in creating a precedent. (See for example the "Penitential" of Halitgar and the so-called "Excerptions" attributed to Egbert of York.) So far as concerns England in particular it was certainly regarded throughout the Middle Ages as uncanonical to allow the beard to grow. A cleric was known as a shorn man (bescoren man, Laws of Wihtred, A.D. 96), and if it should seem that this might refer to the tonsure, we have a law of King Alfred: "If a man shave off another's beard let him make amends with twenty shillings. If he bind him first and then shave him like a priest (hine to preoste bescire) let him make amends with sixty shillings." And under Edgar we find the canon: "Let no man in holy orders conceal his tonsure, nor let himself be misshaven nor keep his beard for any time, if he will have God's blessing and St. Peter's and ours." A similar practice obtained generally throughout the West and it was one of the great subjects of reproach on the part of the Greek Church, from the time of Photius onwards, that the Roman clergy systematically cut off their beards. But as Ratramnus of Corbie protested, it was foolish to make an outcry about a matter which concerned salvation so little as this barbæ detonsio aut conservatio.

      The legislation requiring the beard to be shaved seems to have remained in force throughout the Middle Ages. Thus an ordinance of the Council of Toulouse, in 1119, threatened with excommunication the clerics who "like a layman allowed hair and beard to grow", and Pope Alexander III ordained that clerics who nourished their hair and beard were to be shorn by their archdeacon, by force if necessary  This last decree was incorporated in the text of the canon law (Decretals of Gregory IX, III, tit. i, cap. vii). Durandus, finding mystical reasons for everything, according to his wont, tells us that "length of hair is symbolical of the multitude of sins. Hence clerics are directed to shave their beards; for the cutting of the hair of the beard, which is said to be nourished by the superfluous humours of the stomach, denotes that we ought to cut away the vices and sins which are a superfluous growth in us. Hence we shave our beards that we may seem purified by innocence and humility and that we may be like the angels who remain always in the bloom of youth." (Rationale, II, lib. XXXII.)

    In spite of this, the phrase barbam nutrire which was classical in the matter, and was still used by the Fifth Council of Lateran (1512), always remained somewhat ambiguous.Consequently usage in the sixteenth century began to interpret the prohibition as not inconsistent with a short beard. There are still many ordinances of episcopal synods which deal with the subject, but the point upon which stress is laid is that the clergy "should not seem to be aping the fashions of military folk" or wearing flowing beards like goats (hircorum et caprarum more), or allowing the hair on their upper lip to impede their drinking of the chalice. This last has always been accounted a solid reason in favour of the practice of shaving. To judge by the portraits of the popes, it was with Clement VII (1523) that a distinct beard began to be worn, and many among his successors, for example Paul III, allowed the beard to grow to considerable length. St. Charles Borromeo attempted to check the spread of the new fashion, and in 1576 he addressed to his clergy a pastoral "De barbâ radendâ" exhorting them to observe the canons. Still, though the length of clerical beards decreased during the seventeenth century, it was not until its close that the example of the French court and the influence of Cardinal Orsini, Archbishop of Beneventum, contributed to bring about a return to the earlier usage. For the last 200 years there has been no change, and an attempt made by some of the clergy of Bavaria in 1865 to introduce the wearing of beards was rebuked by the Holy See.

    As already noted, in Eastern lands a smooth face carries with it the suggestion of effeminacy. For this reason the clergy, whether Catholic or Schismatic, of the Oriental churches have always worn their beards. The same consideration, together with a regard for practical difficulties, has influenced the Roman authorities in according a similar privilege to missionaries, not only in the East but in other barbarous countries where the conveniences of civilization cannot be found. In the case of religious orders like the Capuchins and the Camaldolese Hermits the wearing of a beard is prescribed in their constitutions as a mark of austerity and penance. Individual priests who for medical or other reasons desire to exempt themselves from the law require the permission of their bishop.





    I'm very interested in the 1865 rebuttal of the Holy See to the priests of Bavaria who wanted to reintroduc the wearing of beards.  

    Offline Mercyandjustice

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 160
    • Reputation: +37/-17
    • Gender: Male
    Wearing beards in the sanctuary
    « Reply #6 on: January 22, 2017, 03:12:12 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • It seems that having beards, or at least long beards, for clerics was against Roman tradition. I dont know if anything against beards in in the 1917 or 1983 canon law. Does anyone know? But I dont think that it is really that big of a deal. Considering that, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia article, "In the case of religious orders like the Capuchins and the Camaldolese Hermits the wearing of a beard is prescribed in their constitutions as a mark of austerity and penance." And the fact that popes have had beards, like St Pius V, and also holy people have had them, like Padre Pio and Maximilian Kolbe.

    Offline Mercyandjustice

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 160
    • Reputation: +37/-17
    • Gender: Male
    Wearing beards in the sanctuary
    « Reply #7 on: January 22, 2017, 04:32:50 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Based on the articles I've read, here is an amateur timeline of the beard in the west:

    1st century to late 5th century with the so-called fourth council of Carthage: Beards are ok! And manly :smile:  :gandalf:

    5th century to 15th century: strongly discouraged, certain church leaders issuing excommunications and canon law allowing forced shaving of clerics, etc  :sad:  :heretic:

    16th century to end of 17th centuray: beards making a comeback due to an apparently ambiguous term in the fifth council of Lateran. "Both clerics holding benefices and those in holy orders are not to pay special attention to their hair or beards." Popes start growing them, and non popes too! There were 23 popes in a row who had beards, from Clement VII to Innocent XII (who was the last bearded pope we had). Most of these beards weren't too long though and  We can assume that at least some of them didnt pay special attention ( as in vanity) to their beards or hair...... Also, certain saints (St Charles Borromeo) don't like the new trend. He even wrote against it.    :popcorn:
     
    18th century to 1983: Beards seem to be in a limbo type place. They seem to  not really be encouraged, as seen in the 1865 rebuttal of the Holy See to Bavarian priests wanting to wear beards; but they are also not strongly discouraged as in earlier times. And also we haven't had a bearded pontiff in 217 years. They're kind of in the middle I guess.  :scratchchin:    :confused1:
     

    1983 to now:  1983 canon law says nothing about facial hair or hair on scalp. So, to evil Satan worshipping demon infested novus ordo clerics, it is OK to have a beard.