Author Topic: Vatican Council says there will be shepherds "usque ad consummationem saeculi" (Read 16845 times)

DecemRationis · « **Reply #135 on:** June 11, 2020, 06:35:43 AM »

Quote from: Struthio on June 10, 2020, 09:16:36 PM

Thank you, DecemRationis, very much, for letting me know that my efforts were not in vain.

And thank you for your efforts . . . and please keep studying, and sharing your thoughts here.

poche · « **Reply #136 on:** June 12, 2020, 12:05:47 AM »

One thing to remember is what Our Lord said before he ascended up into heaven, "and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." (Matthew 28:20) This is a promise that he made to no other person or institution. When everything is at its darkest we should remember these words from the mouth of our savior.

Struthio · « **Reply #137 on:** June 12, 2020, 01:31:43 PM »

St. Jerome explains Matthew 24:15-20 as concerning both the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70 and the time of the reign of Antichrist. He positively identifies the consummation of the world as a time span during which we must watch out that our Faith and Our love of the Lord don't grow cold and that we don't slowdown doing good deeds.

Quote from: Hieronymus in Matthaeum 24,15

cuм ergo videritis abominationem de solationis, quæ dicta est a Daniele propheta, stantem in loco sancto, qui legit, intelligat. [...] Potest autem simpliciter aut de Antichristo accipi [...]

Verse 15 about the abomination of desolation can be understood of Antichrist. The holy place is the Church stare in loco sancto, hoc est, in Ecclesia. Then we should flee to the mountains debemus fugere de Judæa ad montes etc.

Quote from: Hieronymus in Matthaeum 24,20

Orate autem, ut non fiat fuga vestra hieme, vel sabbato. Si de captivitate Jerusalem voluerimus accipere, quando a Tito et Vespasiano capta est, orare debent, ne fuga eorum hieme, vel sabbato fiat; quia in altero duritia frigoris prohibet ad solitudines pergere, et in montibus desertisque latitare : in altero, aut transgressio Legis est, si fugere voluerint, aut mors immineus, si remanse rint. Si autem de consummatione mundi intelligitur, hoc præcipit, ut non refrigescat fides nostra et in
Christum charitas, neque ut otiosi in opere Dei torpeamus virtutum sabbato.

On verse 20 But pray that your flight be not in the winter, or on the sabbath, Jerome says that this can be understood of the destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70 as well as of the consummation of the world. At the consummation of the world we must beware, our Faith and our love of Christ mustn't grow cold and we mustn't abate with the works of God.

Sancti Eusebii Hieronymi, Opera Omnia

Struthio · « **Reply #138 on:** June 12, 2020, 02:35:10 PM »

Furthermore, St. Jerome says about Matth 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets ... " that this is to be understood in threefold manner, one of which is about the consummation of the world. During the consummation false prophets arise, consequently the consummatio saeculi the disciples ask about is a span of time before the Second Coming.

Quote from: Hieronymus in Matthaeum 24:24

Surgent enim pseudochristi, et pseudo prophetæ, et dabunt signa magna et prodigia; ita ut in errorem inducantur, si fieri potest, etiam electi. Ecce praedixi vobis. Tripliciter, ut ante jam dixi, locus hic disserendus est; aut de tempore obsidionis Romanae ; aut de consummatione mundi ; aut de hæreticorum contra Ecclesiam pugma, et istiusmodi antichristis, qui sub opinione false scientiæ contra Christum dimicant.

Struthio · « **Reply #139 on:** June 26, 2020, 02:31:22 PM »

In Reply #137 I quoted St. Jerome, who

Quote from: Reply #137

[...] explains Matthew 24:15-20 as concerning both the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70 and the time of the reign of Antichrist. He positively identifies the consummation of the world as a time span during which we must watch out that our Faith and Our love of the Lord don't grow cold and that we don't slowdown doing good deeds.

His comment with respect to

Quote from: Matth. 24, drbo.org

[19] And woe to them that are with child, and that give suck in those days.

Vae autem praegnantibus et nutrientibus in illis diebus!

is

Quote from: Jerome

Si autem de consummatione mundi intelligitur, hoc præcipit, ut non refrigescat fides nostra et in Christum charitas, neque ut otiosi in opere Dei torpeamus virtutum sabbato.

But if understood of the consummation of the world, this warns us that our Faith and our love of Christ mustn't grow cold ... Consequently, the consummation of the world includes a time of tribulation before the second coming of Christ.

Venerable Bede, Rabanus Maurus, and St. Thomas Aquinas reiterate these exact words of Jerome:

Bede: In Evangelium S. Marci, LIBER QUARTUS., CAPUT XIII.

Rabanus Maurus: De rerum naturis, LIBER X, XI. De vicissitudinibus temporum IIII.

Thomas Aquinas: Catena Aurea, Marcus

Struthio · « **Reply #140 on:** July 05, 2020, 09:09:46 AM »

Quote from: St. Thomas Aquinas, Catena Aurea on Matthew

Lecture 6
23. “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25. Behold, I have told you before.
26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Chrys. When the Lord had finished all that related to Jerusalem, He came in the rest to His own coming, and gives them signs thereof, useful not for them only, but for us and for all who shall be after us. As above, the Evangelist said, “In those days came John the Baptist,” (Matt 3:1) not implying immediately after what had gone before, but thirty years after; so here, when He says, “Then,” He passes over the whole interval of time between the taking of Jerusalem and the beginnings of the consummation of the world. Among the signs which He gives of His second coming He certifies them concerning the place, and the deceivers. For it shall not be then as at His former coming, when He appeared in Bethlehem, in a corner of the world, unknown of any; but He shall come openly so as not to need any to announce His approach. Wherefore, “If any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe not.”

aquinas.cc

In his Homilies on Matthew (not Opus Imperfectum), St. John Chrysostom identifies the beginnings of the consummation of the world with a time during which false prophets try to deceive, if it were possible, even the very elect.

That's one more clear statement of a Church Father, depicting the consummation of the age as a span of time which starts before the second coming of Christ.

In Lecture 6, St. Thomas Aquinas lists more quotes of the same work of St. John Chrysostom:

Quote from: Catena Aurea on Matthew

Chrys. He speaks here of Antichrist, and of certain his ministers, whom He calls false Christs and false prophets, such as were many in the time of the Apostles; but before Christ’s second coming there shall come others more bitter than the former, “And they shall show great signs and wonders.” (2 Thes 2:9)

Chrys. As He had above described in what guise Antichrist should come, so here He describes how He Himself shall come. For as the lightning needeth none to herald or announce it, but is in an instant of time visible throughout the whole world, even to those that are sitting in their chambers, so the coming of Christ shall be seen every where at once, because of the brightness of His glory. Another sign He adds of His coming, “Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.” The eagles denote the company of the Angels, Martyrs, and Saints.

DecemRationis · « **Reply #141 on:** July 05, 2020, 09:26:07 AM »

Quote from: Struthio on July 05, 2020, 09:09:46 AM

aquinas.cc

In his Homilies on Matthew (not Opus Imperfectum), St. John Chrysostom identifies the beginnings of the consummation of the world with a time during which false prophets try to deceive, if it were possible, even the very elect.

That's one more clear statement of a Church Father, depicting the consummation of the age as a span of time which starts before the second coming of Christ.

In Lecture 6, St. Thomas Aquinas lists more quotes of the same work of St. John Chrysostom:

Much appreciated.

Struthio · « **Reply #142 on:** July 14, 2020, 01:38:32 PM »

In the original Greek consummation of the age reads συντελεία τοῦ αἰῶνος (syntéleia tou aiōnos).

Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words has the following entry on συντελεία:

Quote

The word does not denote a termination, but the heading up of events to the appointed climax.

Struthio · « **Reply #143 on:** July 14, 2020, 02:22:19 PM »

The Wikipedia entry on Vine's Expository Dictionary has a link to download a PDF (7MB) of the Dictionary of William Edwy Vine.

DecemRationis · « **Reply #144 on:** July 14, 2020, 04:59:12 PM »

Quote from: Struthio on July 14, 2020, 01:38:32 PM

In the original Greek consummation of the age reads συντελεία τοῦ αἰῶνος (syntéleia tou aiōnos).

Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words has the following entry on συντελεία:

Well I did refer you to the Greek of Daniel 9:27 about 6 pages back.

DecemRationis · « **Reply #145 on:** July 14, 2020, 05:00:30 PM »

The Septuagint of DN 9:27 of course.

Struthio · « **Reply #146 on:** July 14, 2020, 06:03:50 PM »

Quote from: DecemRationis on July 14, 2020, 04:59:12 PM

Well I did refer you to the Greek of Daniel 9:27 about 6 pages back.

Yes you did. But Greek is worse than the Gospel. No chance at all without someone who explains it.

DecemRationis · « **Reply #147 on:** July 15, 2020, 07:01:04 AM »

Struthio,

It occurred to me this morning that Apoc. 7:3 might be very relevant here to your inquiries. In this verse, an angel tells the other 3 angels the following before the 7th seal is opened and the 7 trumpets are sounded and the wrath of God (Apoc. 6:17) is unleashed on the world:

Quote

[3] Saying: Hurt not the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, till we sign the servants of our God in their foreheads.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73007.htm

The Haydock commentary on this verse says it contains an allusion to Ezekiel, where some in Jerusalem are marked before a judgment: " where God bids an Angel mark with the letter Tau the foreheads of those who should not be hurt by the judgments that were to fall upon Jerusalem."

Food for thought: this "sealing" is perhaps fully accomplished when the Gospel is preached throughout the world and then the wrath of God, cf. "the judgments that were to fall upon Jerusalem," meaning, in the last days of our age, the Church, are unleashed upon the word. This judgment is released at the "consummation of the age" - after the Gospel has been preached throughout the world and all the elect "sealed" - and then Christ returns.

Obviously, the period of the 7 trumpets (wrath of God) is of some duration, and the markers for this final phase of the age would be the mark of the "seal" of all the servants of Christ and the visible appearance of the "abomination of desolation" in the holy place.

These thoughts just occurred to me this morning and I plan to do some study on it myself, but I thought I'd share them with you.

I attach excerpts from the Haydock commentary on Apoc. 7:3 and a discussion by a Heinrich Meyer on the "sealing" in his commentary on the Greek New testament. The Meyer commentary is available here:

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hmc/revelation-7.html

DecemRationis · « **Reply #148 on:** July 15, 2020, 07:18:48 AM »

Quote

Ezekiel 9:4

[4] And the Lord said to him: Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem: and mark Thau upon the foreheads of the men that sigh, and mourn for all the abominations that are committed in the midst thereof.
et dixit Dominus ad eum : Transi per mediam civitatem, in medio Jerusalem, et signa thau super frontes virorum gementium et dolentium super cunctis abominationibus quae fiunt in medio ejus.

http://www.drbo.org/drl/chapter/31009.htm

Struthio · « **Reply #149 on:** July 15, 2020, 09:25:18 PM »

Here my thoughts, DecemRationis:

Some have said that the 6th seal, the 6th trumpet, and the 6th vial concern the time of Antichrist. With the 7th seal/trumpet/vial the "kingdom of this world is become our Lord's and his Christ's". E.g.:

Quote from: Rev 8, drbo.org

[12] And I saw, when he had opened the sixth seal, and behold there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair: and the whole moon became as blood: [13] And the stars from heaven fell upon the earth, as the fig tree casteth its green figs when it is shaken by a great wind: [14] And the heaven departed as a book folded up: and every mountain, and the islands were moved out of their places

Sun/moon/stars/heaven like in e.g. Mt 24:29. During the time of Antichrist (first part of the consummation) Sun and moon (Christ and Church) "in eclipse", the fig tree (Church) loses her fruits (apostates) = stars fall from heaven (apostates). Heaven (Church) is folded up = locked down (no shepherds). Mountains and islands (=mountains of the sea) moved = all which was firm, law and order and Church teaching, put upside down.

After the sixth seal and before the seventh, in Rev 7, before the second advent the servants are marked.

Ez 9:4 "mark Thau upon the foreheads of the men that sigh, and mourn for all the abominations that are committed in the midst midst of Jerusalem"

Mark those who didn't fall for Antichist, mourn the abominations committed during the time of Antichrist in the Church (= Jerusalem).

Author Topic: Vatican Council says there will be shepherds "usque ad consummationem saeculi" (Read 16845 times)

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