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Author Topic: Vatican Council says there will be shepherds "usque ad consummationem saeculi"  (Read 68664 times)

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Offline Praeter

Re: Vatican Council says there will be shepherds "usque ad consummationem saeculi"
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2019, 11:12:01 AM »
Quote from: Struthio on August 16, 2019, 09:32:49 AM
They're deceased. Apostolic succession is over. R&R-proponents say that that's impossible, and conclude that the robber conciliar hierarchy didn't lose their offices though they're modernist heretics. Sedevacantists say that they did lose offices. But sedevacantist bishops have no apostolic seat or mandate either.
Just to be clear, are you saying the Church, as Christ founded it, no longer exists?  That there is no longer a Church that can legitimately carry out the mission that Christ entrusted to it (which requires legitimate authority)?
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Offline Struthio

Re: Vatican Council says there will be shepherds "usque ad consummationem saeculi"
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2019, 11:34:30 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on August 16, 2019, 10:19:10 AM
You want the word "consummation" to mean "consummating" - I think. At this point I can't be sure what you want it to mean.

At what point is the marriage complete? At the consummation of the marriage.
At what point does the world end? At the consummation of the world.


I don't want the term "consummation of the world" mean anything. I just look the meaning up.
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Offline forlorn

Re: Vatican Council says there will be shepherds "usque ad consummationem saeculi"
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2019, 11:55:58 AM »
Quote from: Struthio on August 16, 2019, 11:34:30 AM
I don't want the term "consummation of the world" mean anything. I just look the meaning up.
It means the end of the world. So if there will be a hierarchy until the consummation of the world, there will be a hierarchy until the world ends. Has the world ended yet? Not quite. 
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Offline Struthio

Re: Vatican Council says there will be shepherds "usque ad consummationem saeculi"
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2019, 12:00:40 PM »
Quote from: Praeter on August 16, 2019, 11:12:01 AM
Just to be clear, are you saying the Church, as Christ founded it, no longer exists?

No. The new covenant cannot be and is not over, and the gates of hell have not prevailed and will not prevail against the Church.


Quote from: Praeter on August 16, 2019, 11:12:01 AM
That there is no longer a Church that can legitimately carry out the mission that Christ entrusted to it (which requires legitimate authority)?

No, I don't subscribe to that proposition. My conclusion is: Currently, seats are occupied by apostates or modernist heretics. So currently, the Church isn't carrying out certain tasks which are reserved to legitimate occupants of the seats.
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Offline Struthio

Re: Vatican Council says there will be shepherds "usque ad consummationem saeculi"
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2019, 12:03:51 PM »
Quote from: forlorn on August 16, 2019, 11:55:58 AM
It means the end of the world. So if there will be a hierarchy until the consummation of the world, there will be a hierarchy until the world ends. Has the world ended yet? Not quite.

If I want to know, what consummation of the world means, I look it up in canonical texts, not in posts of forlorn@cathinfo.

 ;)
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