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Author Topic: Vatican Council says there will be shepherds "usque ad consummationem saeculi"  (Read 60334 times)

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Offline Mark 79

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  • I have only just begun perusing this thread and admit this is a kind of cherry picking, but...

    When we say a marriage has been consummated, do we mean it has ended?  No, we do not.

    consummation | ˌkänsəˈmāSHən | noun the action of making a marriage or relationship complete by having sɛҳuąƖ intercourse: the eager consummation that follows a long and passionate seduction. the point at which something is complete or finalized: the consummation of a sale.

    As for consummatio, here is the Liddel-Short entry:

    consummātĭo , ōnis, f. id. (postAug.).
    I. A casting up or reckoning together, a summing up, a summary view.
    A. Prop.: “operarum,Col. 12, 13, 7: “ambitus Europae,Plin. 4, 23, 37, § 121: “singulorum mancipiorum,Dig. 21, 1, 36.—
    B. Transf.
    1. A union, accuмulation: “ita non haec (poma) sed consummatio omnium nocet,not fruit of itself, but the use of it in addition to all other food, Cels. 1, 3, 83.—
    2. In rhet. t. t., a comprehending, connecting together: “cuм plura argumenta ad unum effectum deducuntur,Quint. 9, 2, 103.—
    II. A finishing, completing, accomplishing, consummation: “susceptae professionis,Col. 9, 2, 2: “habet res minime consummationem,id. 1, prooem. § 7:“ maximarum rerum,Sen. Brev. Vit. 1, 3: “operis,Quint. 2, 18, 2; 6, 1, 55: “liberalitatis,Plin. Ep. 5, 12, 1; Vulg. Jer. 30, 11 (for the Heb. ) et saep.: “alvi,” i. e. a digestion of food, Plin. 26, 8, 28, § 43: “gladiatorum,” i. e. the main proof of their skill, id. 8, 7, 7, § 22: PRIMI PILI, i. e. the completed time of service as primipilus, Inscr. Orell. 3453.




    A Latin Dictionary. Founded on Andrews' edition of Freund's Latin dictionary. revised, enlarged, and in great part rewritten by. Charlton T. Lewis, Ph.D. and. Charles Short, LL.D. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1879.
    https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0059:entry=consummatio&highlight=consummatio

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Yeah, I like the expression "wrapped up" or "completed" or "all used up", the root word in there being related to our "summit", meaning peak, or apex, a point beyond which you can't go anymore, where it's finished, or, as I said, "all wrapped up".

    So, then the "saeculum" refers to an era, an epoch of time ... not so much "the world".  It's used loosely to mean the world in the sense of meaning THIS world, the one on THIS side of eternity.  That's why many Latin prayers end with in saecula saeculorum, which is a poetic expression for eternity, meaning unto epoches of epochs, and not world of worlds.  That's likely a carryover from Hebrew idiom, since they ofted used plurals that way, such as in the expressions like "Holy of Holies", something known as the "superlative genitive", where it's a way to say that it's Holier than Holy, Beyond Holy, aka the Holiest possible and beyond.  Thus "ages of ages" means essentially BEYOND all ages, meaning beyond time, or in eternity.  So that is how sometimes "saeculum" can be rendered loosely as the world, since it means that creation which exists "this side of eternity", but it really is a time concept, not a place concept.

    In any case, if you speak of a consummation of the world (speaking of the created world), yes, then you could read some noton of non-finality, where it wouldn't be a hard-fast termination line.  But once you realize that it's consummation of time (effectively), i.e. when time has been all used up, completely spent, and there's none left ... "end of time" is in fact a single discrete point in time, and not just some "phase".


    Offline DecemRationis

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  • I'm carrying this over from another thread, where Lad talked about the Latin phrase, "consummatio saeculi,"as being the "end of time."

    I think St. Augustine was a pretty good Latinist, good enough to be a doctor of the Church. He understood the consummation to include a series of eschatological events prior to the last judgment. St. Augustine believed the there would be a reign of an Antichrist for three and a half years, but it's not clear if that includes the whole period.

    I would agree with Struthio and see this period as stretching back to the Vatican II council, but in any event, let's say it's a 70 year period (since 70 is a significant prophetic number), that's not more than a drop in the bucket in terms of the Church Age.

    In any event, the principle of a series of events, a period of time before the "end" of history this side of eternity, as being part of the "consummatio saeculi" is shared with St. Augustine.

    Below is Grok's - Twitter or X's form of AI - description of St. Augustine's view. You can scoff and say, "that's Grok," and skepticism regarding Grok and anything human or created by hunans is always warranted, but it's consistent with excerpts from St. Augustine that Struthio has posted in this link, and with my reading of St. Augustine, albeit in translation. I can certainly track the excerpts down, and we can get into this deeper if necessary if anyone wants to challenge Grok's assessment.

    Grok got its conclusions from St. Augustine's City of God, Book 20, which is a great read for anyone interested in eschatology.


    Quote
    St. Augustine describes the "consummatio saeculi" (consummation of the age) as the climactic close of the current world, encompassing a brief but intense final phase that includes several interconnected eschatological events leading immediately to the last judgment and the renewal of creation. He frames this as occurring after the symbolic "thousand years" (the present church age), when Satan is loosed for a "short time" (three years and six months), initiating the sequence.

    Augustine outlines the order as follows:

    The coming of Elijah (the Tishbite) to expound the law spiritually and turn the hearts of the Jews to Christ: "Behold, I will send to you Elias the Tishbite before the great and signal day of the Lord come: and he shall turn the heart of the father to the son, and the heart of a man to his next of kin, lest the Lord come and strike the earth utterly" (quoting Malachi 4:5–6). This results in the conversion of the Jews, who will mourn and believe in the true Christ whom they pierced, as prophesied in Zechariah 12:10–14, ensuring they are not utterly destroyed but reconciled through repentance.

    The persecution by Antichrist, who works with Satan's power through signs and lying wonders to seduce the unrighteous and assail the Church: "Christ will not come to judge quick and dead unless Antichrist, His adversary, first come to seduce those who are dead in soul... For then shall Satan be loosed, and by means of that Antichrist shall work with all power... in a deceitful and marvelous manner, even to the tormenting of men's bodies" (referencing 2 Thessalonians 2:3–12 and Revelation 20:7–10). This includes the seduction of nations (Gog and Magog) for a final battle against the saints, described as the "time of trouble" in Daniel 12:1, where the wicked persecute fiercely but are ultimately devoured by fire from heaven.

    These events culminate in Christ's second coming for judgment, the bodily resurrection of the dead (both righteous to everlasting life and wicked to shame), the separation of the good and evil, and the destruction and renewal of the world: "The dead shall rise again incorruptible... and all who were in the graves shall rise again... The earth of the wicked shall fall" (drawing from Isaiah 26:19, Daniel 12:2, and 1 Corinthians 15). The world perishes in fire—"The heavens... they shall perish, but You shall endure... They shall be changed" (Psalm 102:26)—before the new heavens and earth emerge.

    Augustine emphasizes that this consummation is "at the very end of time, before the day of judgment," where the events unfold in rapid succession as the current age concludes, ensuring the transition to the eternal kingdom without mixture of good and evil



    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.